Thoughts on School Gun Laws?

[LoneWolf2554]

With the tragic incident that happened at that school in Ohio in the news, and other tragedies like the shootings at Columbine and Virginia Tech, what are your thoughts about not being able to carry on school grounds?

As a teacher and gun owner it is both comforting and frustrating that guns/weapons are not allowed on school grounds. It is nice knowing that my students know they will be expelled if they bring weapons to school, but if someone is set on doing harm to themselves or others at the school, they are going to bring a weapon regardless of what the rules/laws are. Why should those same laws that are being ignored by that person disarm an educator like me?

I think if a person knew that one of the teachers could be armed, it might prevent some of these awful events. Just looking to see what other thoughts or viewpoints are out there on this topic.

 

[looney2ns]

I agree with you. The Gun Free Zones created by laws should be named setting duck locations.
If a teacher is willing to go to the proper training, I'm all for it.

 

[Taylorz71]

I agree 100% with you. Off duty police officers can't even carry without special circumstances either. It is crazy and the law needs to be overruled at least here in IN.

 

[LCSOSgt11]

Our schools are not bastions of knowledge and learning anymore. They are basically sheep pens, waiting for the wolf to show up and have a large free meal.

Of course, we can discuss why kids bring guns to school, I used to when I was in school to demonstrate disassembly, etc., or also in 4-H. If you do that now, everyone will need counseling, not to mention an overdose of Xanax or two to get everyone calmed down.

Gun free zones are nothing more than "kill us here, now" advertisement signs. I would certainly agree that an armed citizen, with requisite practice and expertise (not to mention a dose of spine and balls) could have cured any of the situations that have happened when armed students went on a killing spree.

Sure, none of us want to use deadly force. However, when someone is killing another, stopping the threat is paramount, not whether the student is "disturbed" mentally. Ceasing the ongoing threat is the immediate problem to be reconciled.

Common Sense is not nearly so common as once was. Banning tools, weapons, etc. from an area is an immediate invitation to bring them to the party (so to speak). That is one reason why police officers are now being assigned to schools, as the other instructors are probably banned by "policy" to protect their own students with a reasonable amount of or method of force.

When I was in school, a long time ago, and if you screwed up, you got a dose of corporal punishment. When you got home, you got more of the same. That is the way that some of us learn. Sometimes (and I would argue most of the time now days) "talking it out" doesn't work. A good old fashioned paddling gets to the meat of the issue. I sure behaved in school, because I didn't want to get my butt warmed up twice or more in a day. I also recognize the difference between "discipline" and "abuse."

Counseling in our modern society means having a warm fuzzy hug, or a visit to a psychologist/counselor/other idiot that should be institutionalized with their other patients. Counseling when I was a lot younger meant getting your ass tuned up. There is a difference.

I really feel sorry for teachers in modern times. They must really be dedicated to their cause. I would not be physically or mentally able to put up with the stupidity that goes on in schools, mainly from the adminstrators of the school systems.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[LoneWolf2554]

A school like mine can't afford to have any of security. Locked doors and watchful eyes will have to do for now. I wouldn't mind going through the training that would be needed. It would be a great thing to have under the belt, in fact I wish we would all have some kind of training for these situations.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I agree with you. The Gun Free Zones created by laws should be named setting duck locations.
If a teacher is willing to go to the proper training, I'm all for it.

I agreed until the proper training part.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I agree 100% with you. Off duty police officers can't even carry without special circumstances either. It is crazy and the law needs to be overruled at least here in IN.

Not that it matters much, but I'm pretty sure that even off-duty LEO are perfectly able to carry their firearm onto school grounds.

Retired and carrying on LEOSA: not necessarily

Off duty: legal

(in Indiana)

-J-

 

[eldirector]

School gun laws are feel-good measures only. They do absolutely nothing to protect anyone, at least any better than a simple school policy. They criminalize otherwise responsible citizens simply because of their possessions when they cross an invisible boundary.

It is already illegal to threaten someone with a weapon.
It is already illegal to shoot someone.
It is already illegal to murder someone.

And yet, it still happens.

Now throw in the fact that every would-be murder knows that schools are easy targets, thanks to all of us "good citizens" obeying the law (and the schools all but ignoring the risks), and it is no surprise that bad things happen.

I find it deeply disturbing that schools don't have a plan for this.

 

[LoneWolf2554]

LCSOSgt11 the rant was just fine. Good points made in there. It would take a heavy dose of "spine and balls" to pull a gun out in a school during a time which could be chaos. That's why I think some good training would be great to have.

Bunnykid68: can you explain why training wouldn't or shouldn't be needed? Or just kinda why you disagree?

 

[Bunnykid68]

I do not disagree with someone getting training, I disagree with it being mandatory that someone get training in order to protect themselves. I have never had professional training and will not say that it would not help me. BUT, who gets to set that standard? Also, what if you do not measure up to that standard that is set? You do not get the RIGHT to defend yourself the way you see fit.

 

[Sylvain]

Politicians must be really stupid to not understand that anti gun laws cannot keep guns out of schools.
Criminals by nature dont follow the law and now matter how many anti gun laws you have they will still be able to bring guns to school and kill people.
Let the good guys carry guns and that may solve the problem.
You never hear of mass shooting in shooting ranges and police stations because even stupid criminals know that people are armed in those places.
I really dont see why schools are viewed as a special places where guns could not be allowed.
Schools are not special or magical, why do we need special laws for those places.
Especially stupid laws that dont work and dont stop the killings of kids.
If you have a LTCH you can legally carry in the street or in a restaurant full of children.
Why would a school be any different?
Why a teacher who has a LTCH and can carry (almost) anywhere he wants, in a bank, a library with kids, the street etc ... but yet cant carry in a school?
So this teacher is trusted by the state to carry in a store or library full of kids but not in his classroom full of kids?
I just dont get the logic behind it.
How many mass shooting will we need until politicians change that stupid law.

Im all for guns in schools, if the law changes I would be glad that a teacher is armed in my children's class.
Anybody with a carry licence should be able to carry in school, teachers, staff, security, student's parents, visitors ... etc.

 

[LoneWolf2554]

Thanks Bunnykid.

Sylvain you basically took everything I've been thinking about and put it in your post.

If I wasn't trustworthy with kids, I probably wouldn't have been hired to teach. If the state didn't think I could handle the LTCH, they wouldn't have given it to me. If the day were to ever come (#1 nightmare/fear of mine) where a gunman were to come into my school, I would like to have more than just my words or a baseball bat to defend my students.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Thanks Bunnykid.

Sylvain you basically took everything I've been thinking about and put it in your post.

If I wasn't trustworthy with kids, I probably wouldn't have been hired to teach. If the state didn't think I could handle the LTCH, they wouldn't have given it to me. If the day were to ever come (#1 nightmare/fear of mine) where a gunman were to come into my school, I would like to have more than just my words or a baseball bat to defend my students.

Should not need the LTCH either

 

[rooster3654]

In my school we had 2 to 3 police officers at the school everyday. I went to school in the suburbs of Indianapolis. I see no issue with teachers and other school employees being able to have weapons. The police officers were off duty and they were paid by the school and not the PD. IC 35-47-9 (that's the section on guns and school) has some exemptions, that include police and persons authorized by the school. It doesn't specify that the LEO has to be on duty. IANAL nor a politician but it appears to me that it's legal for a teacher or other employee to be armed the school would however have to authorize it. Probably have a better chance of winning the lottery though.

 

[Sylvain]

Thanks Bunnykid.

Sylvain you basically took everything I've been thinking about and put it in your post.

If I wasn't trustworthy with kids, I probably wouldn't have been hired to teach. If the state didn't think I could handle the LTCH, they wouldn't have given it to me. If the day were to ever come (#1 nightmare/fear of mine) where a gunman were to come into my school, I would like to have more than just my words or a baseball bat to defend my students.

Yes, if I trust you as a teacher to spend 8 hours a day watching and teaching my kids, and if you are trusted by the state to carry a deadly weapon, I dont have any problem with you teaching my kids while carrying a gun.
If that stupid law doesn't change, and if someone starts shooting people in a school where my kids are (or any school for that matter) I would hope that someone, a good guy, is there with a gun, to stop the massacre.
It doesn't matter if that person is carrying legally (LEO) or not (teacher, parent), I hope that someone would be there with a gun.
And if the person carried illlegally and saved 50 students from a certain death im sure that the public opinion would support that person.
I know I would, and so would people with common sense.
And I would be ready to hire the best lawyer I can find for that person.

 

[Sylvain]

Should not need the LTCH either

I agree with that too, but let's not try to change too much laws at once.
Let's save some kids lifes first then we can worry about constitutional carry in the entire Union without any paper gave by the state.

 

[looney2ns]

Our schools are not bastions of knowledge and learning anymore. They are basically sheep pens, waiting for the wolf to show up and have a large free meal.

Of course, we can discuss why kids bring guns to school, I used to when I was in school to demonstrate disassembly, etc., or also in 4-H. If you do that now, everyone will need counseling, not to mention an overdose of Xanax or two to get everyone calmed down.

Gun free zones are nothing more than "kill us here, now" advertisement signs. I would certainly agree that an armed citizen, with requisite practice and expertise (not to mention a dose of spine and balls) could have cured any of the situations that have happened when armed students went on a killing spree.

Sure, none of us want to use deadly force. However, when someone is killing another, stopping the threat is paramount, not whether the student is "disturbed" mentally. Ceasing the ongoing threat is the immediate problem to be reconciled.

Common Sense is not nearly so common as once was. Banning tools, weapons, etc. from an area is an immediate invitation to bring them to the party (so to speak). That is one reason why police officers are now being assigned to schools, as the other instructors are probably banned by "policy" to protect their own students with a reasonable amount of or method of force.

When I was in school, a long time ago, and if you screwed up, you got a dose of corporal punishment. When you got home, you got more of the same. That is the way that some of us learn. Sometimes (and I would argue most of the time now days) "talking it out" doesn't work. A good old fashioned paddling gets to the meat of the issue. I sure behaved in school, because I didn't want to get my butt warmed up twice or more in a day. I also recognize the difference between "discipline" and "abuse."

Counseling in our modern society means having a warm fuzzy hug, or a visit to a psychologist/counselor/other idiot that should be institutionalized with their other patients. Counseling when I was a lot younger meant getting your ass tuned up. There is a difference.

I really feel sorry for teachers in modern times. They must really be dedicated to their cause. I would not be physically or mentally able to put up with the stupidity that goes on in schools, mainly from the adminstrators of the school systems.

Sorry for the rant.

Extremely well said.

 

[looney2ns]

I agreed until the proper training part.

Are you saying you don't believe they should be required to go to training?
Seriously?

 

[rooster3654]

Yes, if I trust you as a teacher to spend 8 hours a day watching and teaching my kids, and if you are trusted by the state to carry a deadly weapon, I dont have any problem with you teaching my kids while carrying a gun.
If that stupid law doesn't change, and if someone starts shooting people in a school where my kids are (or any school for that matter) I would hope that someone, a good guy, is there with a gun, to stop the massacre.
It doesn't matter if that person is carrying legally (LEO) or not (teacher, parent), I hope that someone would be there with a gun.
And if the person carried illlegally and saved 50 students from a certain death im sure that the public opinion would support that person.
I know I would, and so would people with common sense.
And I would be ready to hire the best lawyer I can find for that person.

+1

 

[Sticky]

My thought is that current school gun laws are idiotic at best.

The Israeli solution has been proven to work well. Use it. The cost would be relatively low since motivated volunteers are used.