This war, among employers, employees, applicants, consumers, and suppliers. How does it break out this time?

[Sigblaster]

If you've been around a while, or have studied labor and the economy, you know this war is nothing new. Maybe it's not even a new war, just a resurgence of a hot war that went cold for a while, and got heated back up in the last several years.

I've been mostly isolated from it from the last 40 years or so, because of my career path, but I've seen the skirmishes and strategies. I know the arguments. Here's some examples:

Employers- I can't find good employees. I pay well.
Employees- My employers don't pay enough, and don't give raises commensurate with inflation.
Applicants- OMG, you have my resume, how many interviews do you have to put me through to make a decision?
Consumers- I want Toyota quatity at Yugo prices.
Suppliers- We're running razor thin margins here. If you can get it cheaper, you should go there, if they can deliver.

How is this one going to end up? In the past, we've ended up with unions, minimum wage, OSHA, trade protectionism, manufacturing innovations, railroads, work programs, welfare programs, etc.

Where does this hot war go cold, or at least cool this time? Who's going to "win" this time, and at least cool it down for a while?

 

[rosejm]

Honestly, at this point in time it seems like the bankers/financiers are winning and we're all going to pay the price for the foreseeable future.

Follow the money.

 

[planedriver]

Bottom line…….. America no longer produces goods or offers services for the world. We are a society of consumers who want it cheap with no regard to quality or durability. That’s called instant gratification. Generations behind us are indoctrinated to an entitlement of the good life without producing anything. They believe it’s their right to get rich in the business of making money by shuffling money while the dumber than tho grease the wheels.

If we don’t have products to sell, knowledge to offer or labor to accomplish goals we are doomed.

Doubt me? Try this test. If you would like to paralyze, a whole generation make their only transportation a stick shift automobile, write the operating instructions in cursive.

 

[Tombs]

If you've been around a while, or have studied labor and the economy, you know this war is nothing new. Maybe it's not even a new war, just a resurgence of a hot war that went cold for a while, and got heated back up in the last several years.

I've been mostly isolated from it from the last 40 years or so, because of my career path, but I've seen the skirmishes and strategies. I know the arguments. Here's some examples:

Employers- I can't find good employees. I pay well.
Employees- My employers don't pay enough, and don't give raises commensurate with inflation.
Applicants- OMG, you have my resume, how many interviews do you have to put me through to make a decision?
Consumers- I want Toyota quatity at Yugo prices.
Suppliers- We're running razor thin margins here. If you can get it cheaper, you should go there, if they can deliver.

How is this one going to end up? In the past, we've ended up with unions, minimum wage, OSHA, trade protectionism, manufacturing innovations, railroads, work programs, welfare programs, etc.

Where does this hot war go cold, or at least cool this time? Who's going to "win" this time, and at least cool it down for a while?

Employees are going to get more money as a consequence of employers finally bending.
Consumers will pay the difference, which will make employees demand more as costs keep skyrocketing.

Meanwhile the banking class will take everything you own, as inflation minimizes the debts on their hard assets, that they will flip for record profits. And when the housing market collapses again, you will bail them out with your tax dollars, which will continue to drive inflation, to help them get even richer.

The only way I see this changing is if this country discovers a new resource that will elevate our economic position on the planet bring in enough foreign money to keep this show going. Massive oil production would be an example.

 

[Usmccookie]

If you've been around a while, or have studied labor and the economy, you know this war is nothing new. Maybe it's not even a new war, just a resurgence of a hot war that went cold for a while, and got heated back up in the last several years.

I've been mostly isolated from it from the last 40 years or so, because of my career path, but I've seen the skirmishes and strategies. I know the arguments. Here's some examples:

Employers- I can't find good employees. I pay well.
Employees- My employers don't pay enough, and don't give raises commensurate with inflation.
Applicants- OMG, you have my resume, how many interviews do you have to put me through to make a decision?
Consumers- I want Toyota quatity at Yugo prices.
Suppliers- We're running razor thin margins here. If you can get it cheaper, you should go there, if they can deliver.

How is this one going to end up? In the past, we've ended up with unions, minimum wage, OSHA, trade protectionism, manufacturing innovations, railroads, work programs, welfare programs, etc.

Where does this hot war go cold, or at least cool this time? Who's going to "win" this time, and at least cool it down for a while?

A.I.

 

[Tombs]

A.I.

That's a good example of a resource we can leverage to bring money in, as long as we're leading the way in AI.

 

[Usmccookie]

That's a good example of a resource we can leverage to bring money in, as long as we're leading the way in AI.

Or they take your job. Tech companies are asking to be regulated. In my opinion they are doing so to close off the open sourcing of the programming. Then only certain entities would have access to ai going forward. Also shutting out the public from being able to access any base code… at least from what I’m gathering, pure speculation with no actual knowledge of coding. Probably fear based with a tingle of distrust in big tech and government. Ianap(rogramer)

 

[Nevermore]

Bottom line…….. America no longer produces goods or offers services for the world. We are a society of consumers who want it cheap with no regard to quality or durability. That’s called instant gratification. Generations behind us are indoctrinated to an entitlement of the good life without producing anything. They believe it’s their right to get rich in the business of making money by shuffling money while the dumber than tho grease the wheels.

If we don’t have products to sell, knowledge to offer or labor to accomplish goals we are doomed.

Doubt me? Try this test. If you would like to paralyze, a whole generation make their only transportation a stick shift automobile, write the operating instructions in cursive.

Ah yes, the ability to operate antiquated technology that has very little marketable value. Truly the indicative of a generation without products to sell, knowledge to offer or labor to accomplish goals.

At this point we're waiting to see what the new world order will be as the old order passes away, by my way of thinking. Bank failures, rapid inflation - it's all going to come to the head we should have had in 2008 at least but managed to kick down the road with the Fed's mighty money machine. It was going to *hurt* then, it's going to be a very serious blow now. I think we can recover from it, but what that will look like is hard to see because it depends in part on foreign issues like if China's little combo ethnic/demographic/rising middle class time bomb cripples them enough to see us surge as a stable source of manufacturing. Plus, we generally don't steal everything not nailed down and then boot you out of the country once we don't need you, as the Chinese seem to like doing.

 

[Tombs]

Or they take your job. Tech companies are asking to be regulated. In my opinion they are doing so to close off the open sourcing of the programming. Then only certain entities would have access to ai going forward. Also shutting out the public from being able to access any base code… at least from what I’m gathering, pure speculation with no actual knowledge of coding. Probably fear based with a tingle of distrust in big tech and government. Ianap(rogramer)

Well, there's a couple angles to closing the source.

Do you want china become the global leader in the next technological evolution that will fundamentally change everything?

 

[Usmccookie]

Well, there's a couple angles to closing the source.

Do you want china become the global leader in the next technological evolution that will fundamentally change everything?

At this point, I’m not sure who I trust less. Kinda purple intended

I think it’s a zero sum game. Anyway you slice it, us plebs won’t be on the winning side, even if “our” side wins. I thought a regulation on AI was needed, but now I have doubts. Similar to decentralized currency, transparent and accountable… that is, until the gov got involved and wants to use it as a step up from credit cards in control and invasion of our private spending.

Once again, not knowledgeable enough to have a serious opinion. Just typing as I think it.

 

[Leadeye]

Government will get all the mileage it can out of a long run of inflation followed by a Volker style shutdown of the economy for years. Much like the late 70s and early 80s only more extreme.

 

[Route 45]

Doubt me? Try this test. If you would like to paralyze, a whole generation make their only transportation a stick shift automobile, write the operating instructions in cursive.

Yeah! Hur hur hur. Who raised these losers?

 

[BigRed]

Doubt me? Try this test. If you would like to paralyze, a whole generation make their only transportation a stick shift automobile, write the operating instructions in cursive.

Happy to say all our offspring can drive a manual transmission and write cursive....LOL!

 

[Usmccookie]

Bottom line…….. America no longer produces goods or offers services for the world. We are a society of consumers who want it cheap with no regard to quality or durability. That’s called instant gratification. Generations behind us are indoctrinated to an entitlement of the good life without producing anything. They believe it’s their right to get rich in the business of making money by shuffling money while the dumber than tho grease the wheels.

If we don’t have products to sell, knowledge to offer or labor to accomplish goals we are doomed.

Doubt me? Try this test. If you would like to paralyze, a whole generation make their only transportation a stick shift automobile, write the operating instructions in cursive.

Imagine a generation that can’t code or operate a pc at a high level or trust a self driving car… Times change, necessities change, each generation thinks they are smarter than those before and after.

As cool as they are, my stock vw Jetta Can out “everything” a stock muscle car from the 60’s. Yet people will swear the old stuff is better.

 

[Leo]

I went to Academy Sports today. I have grand kids that play ball. I just looked at things that interested me as a kid. Middle quality football, $30. Standard baseball glove $75, Wooden bat, $120. (not to mention $850 for a 4 inch stainless Ruger revolver)

Driving home, I got depressed. After a lifetime of work, degrees, certificates, licenses, investments, scrimping and saving, I cannot even afford to be a school kid playing park department leagues.

It is a different world. When I was a school boy playing park department ball, nothing was really cheap, but people could afford to buy stuff, and it was mostly made in the USA Even small companies seemed to make money as seen in expanding their facilities and increasing their workforce. That was when most people pulled their weight, and the top people took plenty, but did not take it all.

 

[Usmccookie]

I went to Academy Sports today. I have grand kids that play ball. I just looked at things that interested me as a kid. Middle quality football, $30. Standard baseball glove $75, Wooden bat, $120. (not to mention $850 for a 4 inch stainless Ruger revolver)

Driving home, I got depressed. After a lifetime of work, degrees, certificates, licenses, investments, scrimping and saving, I cannot even afford to be a school kid playing park department leagues.

It is a different world. When I was a school boy playing park department ball, nothing was really cheap, but people could afford to buy stuff, and it was mostly made in the USA Even small companies seemed to make money as seen in expanding their facilities and increasing their workforce. That was when most people pulled their weight, and the top people took plenty, but did not take it all.

Average household income in 1975 was ~$13k
Today ~$97k

 

[Shadow01]

How many hourly employees can say their current employer gave them a raise this year that at minimum matched inflation? Buying power can’t grow when the majority of your working class gets beat down as much as they have in the last 3 years by inflation.

 

[Leo]

Average household income in 1975 was ~$13k
Today ~$97k

Your statement is certainly reasonable. I am retired so my income is less. I don't see stronger homes and families, I sure don't see the government making progress on the retirement of the debt. The path is not leading us where we need to go.

 

[KLB]

How many hourly employees can say their current employer gave them a raise this year that at minimum matched inflation? Buying power can’t grow when the majority of your working class gets beat down as much as they have in the last 3 years by inflation.

What does hourly have to do with that? Not many employees received raises that kept pace with inflation. 3% has been the average I've seen.

 

[KLB]

Or they take your job. Tech companies are asking to be regulated. In my opinion they are doing so to close off the open sourcing of the programming. Then only certain entities would have access to ai going forward. Also shutting out the public from being able to access any base code… at least from what I’m gathering, pure speculation with no actual knowledge of coding. Probably fear based with a tingle of distrust in big tech and government. Ianap(rogramer)

That is not how open source works. A company that develops software owns that code. No one has the right, nor generally, the ability to see the code for that software.

They can choose to make it open source. That allows anyone to see the code and work with it. It is a choice for those companies, and once it is out there they really can't stop people from seeing it.