The President Trump Immigration Thread

[KLB]

Regardless how you meant it, it’s reasonably interpreted the way I took it. What you’re saying it means doesn’t seem to answer the post you were replying to.

You two are talking past each other. He is trying to address one small part of your overall argument while ignoring the totality of it. You are trying to fit what he says into the totality of your argument.

 

[nonobaddog]

You two are talking past each other. He is trying to address one small part of your overall argument while ignoring the totality of it. You are trying to fit what he says into the totality of your argument.

You are right. However I am not intentionally focusing on that one point, it is just that it is that one point that was so mistakenly misread. I give up on further clarification. I think all who are going to understand correctly already have.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

The point asserted that I responded to was that Trump was within his authority to divert those DoD funds to the border wall. Don’t get hung up with language like “diverted”. You can use whatever verb you want. If it’s a good use of funds, and within his authority to do, he could just do it with an executive order. He would not have needed to use an emergency order as a mechanism to give him the authority to do it. Trump needed congress to fund the wall because he doesn’t have the authority to direct those funds wherever he wants. I have said repeatedly that it is the use of emergency powers to get around congress that I object to. So far TB is the only one who will just admit it and go to the crux of the issue, he just doesn’t give a ****. It’s okay for Trump to abuse power because Trump is accomplishing the goal by doing so. Everyone else is making excuses. There’s no other way out if it. Be consistent. If you’re gonna say **** rule of law, just remember you don’t really care when it’s the left doing it to achieve their goals. Don’t go talking about abuse of power when President Abrams uses emergency powers to get around congress on gun control. Pelosi has already promised they would when they gain back the presidency.

Joining late, but a few thoughts:

1. Statute grants the ability to use these funds in the event of an emergency AND grants the president the discretion of declaring the emergency. IMO, not and abuse of power... if you disagree with the application in this case, you could argue unwise use of the power granted by statute, but not abuse.

2. Regarding an EO implementing de facto gun control... the only power I'm aware of that allows suspending constitutional rights is martial law. Am I missing something? Or do you really think that they are cray enough to fling that s**t towards the proverbial fan, because it will hit the fan.

 

[BugI02]

Joining late, but a few thoughts:

1. Statute grants the ability to use these funds in the event of an emergency AND grants the president the discretion of declaring the emergency. IMO, not and abuse of power... if you disagree with the application in this case, you could argue unwise use of the power granted by statute, but not abuse.

2. Regarding an EO implementing de facto gun control... the only power I'm aware of that allows suspending constitutional rights is martial law. Am I missing something? Or do you really think that they are cray enough to fling that s**t towards the proverbial fan, because it will hit the fan.

I think they are that crazy. I believe they will keep pushing until the people are either on their feet or on their knees, and I think they believe (incorrectly) that it will be the latter. 3% of 254 million (total US pop. 18 and over) is 8.5x the total number of police and about 8x the total of Army, ANG and reserve

 

[nonobaddog]

I think they are that crazy. I believe they will keep pushing until the people are either on their feet or on their knees, and I think they believe (incorrectly) that it will be the latter. 3% of 254 million (total US pop. 18 and over) is 8.5x the total number of police and about 8x the total of Army, ANG and reserve

Most police and military are good Americans. The best hope is that they remember that when unconstitutional happens.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I think they are that crazy. I believe they will keep pushing until the people are either on their feet or on their knees, and I think they believe (incorrectly) that it will be the latter. 3% of 254 million (total US pop. 18 and over) is 8.5x the total number of police and about 8x the total of Army, ANG and reserve

They have a small (hopefully very small), vocal minority calling for defunding the police and meaning exactly what those words say. I think that same small group believe that they can go "full Beto".

Most police and military are good Americans. The best hope is that they remember that when unconstitutional happens.

Yes, it is interesting that I have yet to find anyone in real life who advocates confiscating American's firearms who also serves in law enforcement or the military... or would even in a million years consider such service. Not saying the two are mutually exclusive, but in my experience, those calling for confiscation would 100% rely on someone else to do the confiscation for them. Something like...

 

[jamil]

You two are talking past each other. He is trying to address one small part of your overall argument while ignoring the totality of it. You are trying to fit what he says into the totality of your argument.

I agree.

 

[foszoe]

A better grade of toilet paper has "some effect" but I am not so sure it's always worth paying for.

I didn't say complete, I said execute. Do you deny that some wall has some effect? Does future legislation, as yet unwritten and unpassed, have any current effect at all?

Sorry, but I see the 'let's take care of this by changing [immigration law, birthright citizenship, whatever else you think might be effective]' as an excuse to put off doing anything - much like waiting on a balanced budget amendment to do the work of rationalizing federal budgets. It is a way to appear to be addressing the problem without actually having to take a stand, or a risky vote or really do much of anything besides posture

 

[printcraft]

Regular entry door knob locks are sufficient to secure your home.
Dead bolts have "some effect" but really are not necessary.
I mean, the door is locked, steps to prevent unauthorized entry have been taken.

 

[foszoe]

Every wall they put up gets defeated....but I guess we can turn into liberals and say...."If it saves just one life!"

Come up with something that dramatically works. Seismic sensors, infrared drone patrols etc...then let's have a real conversation!

Regular entry door knob locks are sufficient. Dead bolts have "some effect" but really are not necessary.

 

[jamil]

Most police and military are good Americans. The best hope is that they remember that when unconstitutional happens.

Don’t forget the campaign to deconstruct law enforcement and rebuild it. Many of those good police officers are quitting because their cities and departments are throwing them under the bus. Some key cities have capitulated and have agreed to defund police. I strongly suspect that the idea is to create a police force that looks a lot more like the UK, where they care more about finding and catching “hate speech” than thieves and murderers.

I don’t imagine that the “peace officers” they imagine for the future would have any problems enforcing whatever elected officials want.

 

[BugI02]

A better grade of toilet paper has "some effect" but I am not so sure it's always worth paying for.

Your devastating critique of mask wearing is noted and approved, wrong thread, though

 

[BugI02]

Every wall they put up gets defeated....but I guess we can turn into liberals and say...."If it saves just one life!"

Come up with something that dramatically works. Seismic sensors, infrared drone patrols etc...then let's have a real conversation!

Translation: Delay effective action to some nebulous future date while a few hundred million more breach the border. The technology you advocate is already in use around area 51, what doesn't exist is the will to use it; and as soon as you attempt it the narrative will return to how expensive it is and how there are ways to defeat it. Circular reasoning at its finest

 

[nonobaddog]

Don’t forget the campaign to deconstruct law enforcement and rebuild it. Many of those good police officers are quitting because their cities and departments are throwing them under the bus. Some key cities have capitulated and have agreed to defund police. I strongly suspect that the idea is to create a police force that looks a lot more like the UK, where they care more about finding and catching “hate speech” than thieves and murderers.

I don’t imagine that the “peace officers” they imagine for the future would have any problems enforcing whatever elected officials want.

Yeah, defunding police is some stupid scary thinking. I don't have a good picture of what they are thinking the future will be like in Minneapolis but I believe the city council is so screwed up there that whatever they are picturing would not be good for the city or for America.

There is some push-back already and I hope there is enough that this defunding will never receive voter approval.

 

[BugI02]

I believe MSP has a significant population of Somalis, perhaps some will push to implement the system used in their country of origin. I believe their is already gang activity associated with the community

 

[BugI02]

"Who run Bartertown?"

 

[foszoe]

You would have made a great David Letterman Script Embellishment writer!

Translation: Delay effective action to some nebulous future date while a few hundred million more breach the border. The technology you advocate is already in use around area 51, what doesn't exist is the will to use it; and as soon as you attempt it the narrative will return to how expensive it is and how there are ways to defeat it. Circular reasoning at its finest

 

[foszoe]

Show me a million dollar mask then let's talk!

Your devastating critique of mask wearing is noted and approved, wrong thread, though

 

[BugI02]

Translation: Delay effective action to some nebulous future date while a few hundred million more breach the border. The technology you advocate is already in use around area 51, what doesn't exist is the will to use it; and as soon as you attempt it the narrative will return to how expensive it is and how there are ways to defeat it. Circular reasoning at its finest

Show me a million dollar mask then let's talk!

Only five posts and my point is made. "It won't be effective" <====> "It costs too much"

Glad SJWs weren't around to critique containment of communism, as it was expensive and of initially unapparent utility

 

[foszoe]

Now I understand how modern day Republicans spend Trillions.

Only five posts and my point is made. "It won't be effective" <====> "It costs too much"

Glad SJWs weren't around to critique containment of communism, as it was expensive and of initially unapparent utility