The Middle East (or, if you live there, right here)

[BehindBlueI's]

You define relative peace as violent and aggressive expansion followed by a gradual beating back?

The British Empire? Oh, right, Ottomans. Well, we're not talking about the entire Ottoman Empire, we're talking about the Middle East. What did the rest of the world look like in the same 600 years? What was Europe doing? What was what would become the Soviet Union up to? Yes, the Middle East was relatively peaceful when you look at the context of the day. Relative peace isn't total peace. I'd suppose most of us would agree America is relatively peaceful...but can you pick a decade since our existent we didn't have some fight somewhere? Yet, these days, it isn't on our home turf and war doesn't really effect the majority of us.

As far as your terrorist list, yes, it's a hand full. There are over 1.5 BILLION people who identify as Muslim. About 1 in 4 of the world population. Then there's the argument of if all of them are religiously motivated. Just because a Muslim does something, doesn't mean they did it because they are Muslim. Think of Ferguson. The underlying issue was racial tension, but is anyone willing to step up and argue that they rioted because they were black? Or insinuate that all blacks are rioters? Or post a video titled "a good black female" and then show a woman loot a store? No, of course not. We all know how long that sort of bigotry would last on INGO.

So, let's look at that. The Kurds are Muslim, generally, and they've been fighting for decades. Why? Well, primarily because they want their own country. Many of the groups may recruit heavily with religious messages, and many of the foot soldiers (so to speak) are likely drawn in by that argument. We don't usually call the Kurds terrorists...because they are fighting people we would like them to fight. What's Turkey think? Yet we can all agree that's not predominately a religious war. It's a war for the reasons most wars are fought, resources. The Catholic/Protestant battles in the UK? Really over religion? Or over territory and questions of self-rule with a sprinkle of religious trappings and using religion as the morale supporting storyline behind your struggle? For that matter, the forming of Israel? All about religion? The Jews coming home to a promised land? Or because the Jews were being systematically prosecuted in the majority of Europe and Russian territories and the powerful story behind returning to a homeland was used to motivate and gain support? A lot of secular Jews were Zionists, after all.

It's very simple to say "Islam is violent, Muslims are violent, this is all because of Islam." Again, you just have to ignore millions and millions of Muslims, or pick through and decide "well, they aren't REALLY Muslim" to cherry pick what you want to prove. That's why I posted the thread about living in the Middle East. It's real tough to continue to believe all Muslims are terrorists or violent when you see a man and a woman helping kids build robots with giant foam blocks. The vast, vast, majority are just going about their day, raising families, going to work, living their lives. The problems tend to cluster in areas of poverty, ignorance, and political strife. Actually, the same types of places crime flourishes here for the most part.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

The British Empire? Oh, right, Ottomans. Well, we're not talking about the entire Ottoman Empire, we're talking about the Middle East. What did the rest of the world look like in the same 600 years? What was Europe doing? What was what would become the Soviet Union up to? Yes, the Middle East was relatively peaceful when you look at the context of the day. Relative peace isn't total peace. I'd suppose most of us would agree America is relatively peaceful...but can you pick a decade since our existent we didn't have some fight somewhere? Yet, these days, it isn't on our home turf and war doesn't really effect the majority of us.

As far as your terrorist list, yes, it's a hand full. There are over 1.5 BILLION people who identify as Muslim. About 1 in 4 of the world population. Then there's the argument of if all of them are religiously motivated. Just because a Muslim does something, doesn't mean they did it because they are Muslim. Think of Ferguson. The underlying issue was racial tension, but is anyone willing to step up and argue that they rioted because they were black? Or insinuate that all blacks are rioters? Or post a video titled "a good black female" and then show a woman loot a store? No, of course not. We all know how long that sort of bigotry would last on INGO.

So, let's look at that. The Kurds are Muslim, generally, and they've been fighting for decades. Why? Well, primarily because they want their own country. Many of the groups may recruit heavily with religious messages, and many of the foot soldiers (so to speak) are likely drawn in by that argument. We don't usually call the Kurds terrorists...because they are fighting people we would like them to fight. What's Turkey think? Yet we can all agree that's not predominately a religious war. It's a war for the reasons most wars are fought, resources. The Catholic/Protestant battles in the UK? Really over religion? Or over territory and questions of self-rule with a sprinkle of religious trappings and using religion as the morale supporting storyline behind your struggle? For that matter, the forming of Israel? All about religion? The Jews coming home to a promised land? Or because the Jews were being systematically prosecuted in the majority of Europe and Russian territories and the powerful story behind returning to a homeland was used to motivate and gain support? A lot of secular Jews were Zionists, after all.

It's very simple to say "Islam is violent, Muslims are violent, this is all because of Islam." Again, you just have to ignore millions and millions of Muslims, or pick through and decide "well, they aren't REALLY Muslim" to cherry pick what you want to prove. That's why I posted the thread about living in the Middle East. It's real tough to continue to believe all Muslims are terrorists or violent when you see a man and a woman helping kids build robots with giant foam blocks. The vast, vast, majority are just going about their day, raising families, going to work, living their lives. The problems tend to cluster in areas of poverty, ignorance, and political strife. Actually, the same types of places crime flourishes here for the most part.

How exactly did the Ottoman empire bring peace to the rest of the middle east? Oh yeah that's right.

What did Europe look like at the same time? Well let's see during the start of those 600 years of peace Michelangelo, Da Vinci you know that whole Renaissance age thing. They did have their set backs along with some empire building during that time I will agree. I'm not saying there weren't wrongs committed.

How many of those 1.5 billion protested against 9/11 vs how many were waving flags and celebrating it? Yes there were heads of state condemning it, there were also throngs of people in the streets celebrating. And we're also not discussing the entire 1.5 billion. How many of those live in Africa, India, etc?

I don't believe all Muslims are violent or terrorists. I'm saying a large portion of them in the ME support them.

 

[jss1956]

The British Empire? Oh, right, Ottomans. Well, we're not talking about the entire Ottoman Empire, we're talking about the Middle East. What did the rest of the world look like in the same 600 years? What was Europe doing? What was what would become the Soviet Union up to? Yes, the Middle East was relatively peaceful when you look at the context of the day. Relative peace isn't total peace. I'd suppose most of us would agree America is relatively peaceful...but can you pick a decade since our existent we didn't have some fight somewhere? Yet, these days, it isn't on our home turf and war doesn't really effect the majority of us.

As far as your terrorist list, yes, it's a hand full. There are over 1.5 BILLION people who identify as Muslim. About 1 in 4 of the world population. Then there's the argument of if all of them are religiously motivated. Just because a Muslim does something, doesn't mean they did it because they are Muslim. Think of Ferguson. The underlying issue was racial tension, but is anyone willing to step up and argue that they rioted because they were black? Or insinuate that all blacks are rioters? Or post a video titled "a good black female" and then show a woman loot a store? No, of course not. We all know how long that sort of bigotry would last on INGO.

So, let's look at that. The Kurds are Muslim, generally, and they've been fighting for decades. Why? Well, primarily because they want their own country. Many of the groups may recruit heavily with religious messages, and many of the foot soldiers (so to speak) are likely drawn in by that argument. We don't usually call the Kurds terrorists...because they are fighting people we would like them to fight. What's Turkey think? Yet we can all agree that's not predominately a religious war. It's a war for the reasons most wars are fought, resources. The Catholic/Protestant battles in the UK? Really over religion? Or over territory and questions of self-rule with a sprinkle of religious trappings and using religion as the morale supporting storyline behind your struggle? For that matter, the forming of Israel? All about religion? The Jews coming home to a promised land? Or because the Jews were being systematically prosecuted in the majority of Europe and Russian territories and the powerful story behind returning to a homeland was used to motivate and gain support? A lot of secular Jews were Zionists, after all.

It's very simple to say "Islam is violent, Muslims are violent, this is all because of Islam." Again, you just have to ignore millions and millions of Muslims, or pick through and decide "well, they aren't REALLY Muslim" to cherry pick what you want to prove. That's why I posted the thread about living in the Middle East. It's real tough to continue to believe all Muslims are terrorists or violent when you see a man and a woman helping kids build robots with giant foam blocks. The vast, vast, majority are just going about their day, raising families, going to work, living their lives. The problems tend to cluster in areas of poverty, ignorance, and political strife. Actually, the same types of places crime flourishes here for the most part.

OK, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about having firsthand knowledge since you lived there. I haven't been in this area of the world so I can't say what it's really like. But as an American and someone who has traveled abroad, I will give you my thoughts on your comment that "there are over 1.5 BILLION people who identify as Muslim" and only a "Handful" are terrorists. You imply that hundreds of millions are just like us, law abiding and peaceful. I don't buy it.

First, this "disease" is getting larger, not smaller. This group wants to dominate the world not just a few countries. And anyone who disagrees or does not follow their thinking is to be killed. This latest fiasco is just another magnet that the bad guys will use on social media and the internet to recruit more Islamic followers. The problem will continue to spread. At some point, the bad guys will take over a country with nukes. Then things will get really interesting. Pakistan is a nuke power and it is full of these guys. And by looking, can you tell the difference between a terrorist and a Muslim who is "just like me"? I can't. Worse, what do I hear from the "Good" Muslim’s, the ones you feel are just ordinary folk?............. Crickets. So that makes them all strongly suspect.

Here are two simple solutions:

Solution #1: Since the bad guys "Wanna play terror games, Nuke 3-4 high value targets in the Middle East. Follow up with a message that we will nuke 1 target per week until the garbage stops. Period. Of course, American's have become far to spineless for such a solution and would freak out at the thought of collateral damage. Never mind the bad guys are incredibly barbaric and are slaughtering people by the millions including Christians. Terrorism is a Islamic Muslim based cancer that will only grow.

Solution #2: Purge the US of ALL Muslims, period. Give them 6 months to leave or else. Seize their assets. They can reenter the US once they have solved this problem. After all, it’s an Islamic problem. Let Muslim’s solve it.

Don't expect American's to fix this problem. There are few if any leaders with any **lls. So the problem will continue to grow. And yes, it will happen here in America. The only way you are going to end this circus is to slap these guys into the dirt. Permanently.

 

[bulletsmith]

OK, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about having firsthand knowledge since you lived there. I haven't been in this area of the world so I can't say what it's really like. But as an American and someone who has traveled abroad, I will give you my thoughts on your comment that "there are over 1.5 BILLION people who identify as Muslim" and only a "Handful" are terrorists. You imply that hundreds of millions are just like us, law abiding and peaceful. I don't buy it.

First, this "disease" is getting larger, not smaller. This group wants to dominate the world not just a few countries. And anyone who disagrees or does not follow their thinking is to be killed. This latest fiasco is just another magnet that the bad guys will use on social media and the internet to recruit more Islamic followers. The problem will continue to spread. At some point, the bad guys will take over a country with nukes. Then things will get really interesting. Pakistan is a nuke power and it is full of these guys. And by looking, can you tell the difference between a terrorist and a Muslim who is "just like me"? I can't. Worse, what do I hear from the "Good" Muslim’s, the ones you feel are just ordinary folk?............. Crickets. So that makes them all strongly suspect.

Here are two simple solutions:

Solution #1: Since the bad guys "Wanna play terror games, Nuke 3-4 high value targets in the Middle East. Follow up with a message that we will nuke 1 target per week until the garbage stops. Period. Of course, American's have become far to spineless for such a solution and would freak out at the thought of collateral damage. Never mind the bad guys are incredibly barbaric and are slaughtering people by the millions including Christians. Terrorism is a Islamic Muslim based cancer that will only grow.

Solution #2: Purge the US of ALL Muslims, period. Give them 6 months to leave or else. Seize their assets. They can reenter the US once they have solved this problem. After all, it’s an Islamic problem. Let Muslim’s solve it.

Don't expect American's to fix this problem. There are few if any leaders with any **lls. So the problem will continue to grow. And yes, it will happen here in America. The only way you are going to end this circus is to slap these guys into the dirt. Permanently.

Those are the options? Wow...

 

[BehindBlueI's]

OK, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about having firsthand knowledge since you lived there. I haven't been in this area of the world so I can't say what it's really like. But as an American and someone who has traveled abroad, I will give you my thoughts on your comment that "there are over 1.5 BILLION people who identify as Muslim" and only a "Handful" are terrorists. You imply that hundreds of millions are just like us, law abiding and peaceful. I don't buy it.

First, this "disease" is getting larger, not smaller. This group wants to dominate the world not just a few countries. And anyone who disagrees or does not follow their thinking is to be killed. This latest fiasco is just another magnet that the bad guys will use on social media and the internet to recruit more Islamic followers. The problem will continue to spread. At some point, the bad guys will take over a country with nukes. Then things will get really interesting. Pakistan is a nuke power and it is full of these guys. And by looking, can you tell the difference between a terrorist and a Muslim who is "just like me"? I can't. Worse, what do I hear from the "Good" Muslim’s, the ones you feel are just ordinary folk?............. Crickets. So that makes them all strongly suspect.

Here are two simple solutions:

Solution #1: Since the bad guys "Wanna play terror games, Nuke 3-4 high value targets in the Middle East. Follow up with a message that we will nuke 1 target per week until the garbage stops. Period. Of course, American's have become far to spineless for such a solution and would freak out at the thought of collateral damage. Never mind the bad guys are incredibly barbaric and are slaughtering people by the millions including Christians. Terrorism is a Islamic Muslim based cancer that will only grow.

Solution #2: Purge the US of ALL Muslims, period. Give them 6 months to leave or else. Seize their assets. They can reenter the US once they have solved this problem. After all, it’s an Islamic problem. Let Muslim’s solve it.

Don't expect American's to fix this problem. There are few if any leaders with any **lls. So the problem will continue to grow. And yes, it will happen here in America. The only way you are going to end this circus is to slap these guys into the dirt. Permanently.

So, since I was born here where do you think I should go? My wife?

Purge a religion from the nation? If only there was a some protection for religion in our founding documents. If only.

Again, I'd like to see this logic applied to any other group on INGO. Hey, black on black crime is a black issue. Let's round up all the blacks and ship them out?

 

[Thor]

As to the OP, go read the 7 Pillars of Wisdom, it was before Israel existed. They have been killing each other over tribalism and silly religious differences for all of history.

As to the way the rest of this thread has gone...

 

[Cerberus]

So, since I was born here where do you think I should go? My wife?

Purge a religion from the nation? If only there was a some protection for religion in our founding documents. If only.

Again, I'd like to see this logic applied to any other group on INGO. Hey, black on black crime is a black issue. Let's round up all the blacks and ship them out?

I guess you could lead those peaceable Muslims to salve the problem. Should be simple since they are all so good, right? Riiiiiight!!!

 

[jss1956]

Those are the options? Wow...

Unless you have a better suggestion? Guaranteed to stop this useless nonsense. Cause nothing we've done so far has worked.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

So, since I was born here where do you think I should go? My wife?

Purge a religion from the nation? If only there was a some protection for religion in our founding documents. If only.

Again, I'd like to see this logic applied to any other group on INGO. Hey, black on black crime is a black issue. Let's round up all the blacks and ship them out?

Personally I'd say you and your wife should be able to stay. Close the door now though.

Yeah right.

Hey that was Lincoln's idea/plan...

 

[jss1956]

So, since I was born here where do you think I should go? My wife?

Purge a religion from the nation? If only there was a some protection for religion in our founding documents. If only.

Again, I'd like to see this logic applied to any other group on INGO. Hey, black on black crime is a black issue. Let's round up all the blacks and ship them out?

So are you Muslim? If so, please tell me two things: Why do you stand silent and do or say nothing and what is the solution?

 

[findingZzero]

As to the OP, go read the 7 Pillars of Wisdom, it was before Israel existed. They have been killing each other over tribalism and silly religious differences for all of history.

As to the way the rest of this thread has gone...

Thanks!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So are you Muslim? If so, please tell me two things: Why do you stand silent and do or say nothing and what is the solution?

Well, let's see. I'm a veteran. I'm a former security contractor. I'm currently a cop. Seems like I'm doing my share to keep the country safe. What have you done?

Do I need to call you every time a Muslim does something somewhere and tell you I disagree? I'd figure the fact we have allies like the Kurds, Turks, Jordanians, etc fighting ISIS would indicate that Muslims are also involved in stopping them. Plus that most of ISIS victims ARE Muslims.

Now, would you like me to post media accounts of Muslims immediately speaking out against the terrorism in France? Google well probably get it for you.

I'd just like to point out the irony of calling for genocide, economic penalties without due process, and expulsion of citizens for having the "wrong religion" in a thread about Israel. That's pretty much the reason Israel came to be. Russia and most of non-British Europe were doing that to the Jews. Double irony for ignoring due process and the Constitution while decrying someone else as not being peaceful and law abiding.

 

[BugI02]

So are you Muslim? If so, please tell me two things: Why do you stand silent and do or say nothing and what is the solution?

Dude, you're white, right? (just playing the odds here) So what's the solution to race problems in the US? This is the same illogic you just applied to BBI. Just because he may identify as muslim that means he has to have the answers to all intractable problems associated with that choice? Life just isn't that simple

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Dude, you're white, right? (just playing the odds here) So what's the solution to race problems in the US? This is the same illogic you just applied to BBI. Just because he may identify as muslim that means he has to have the answers to all intractable problems associated with that choice? Life just isn't that simple

Right? And I expect a call to let me know when you disagree with something a racist white person does. And to let me know what you're doing to stop white people from being racist. Most folks just live their lives, raise their families, go to work, etc. etc. They aren't worried about solving all the world's problems. They want to solve their personal problems. Feed their kids. Keep a roof over their head. Maybe get laid occasionally. That sort of thing.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Oh, here's a fellow in Lebanon who stepped up to the plate big time and did something. Odds are he's Muslim, but in Lebanon it's not a sure thing.

This Is the Hero Who Sacrificed His Own Life to Save Hundreds From ISIS Terrorists - Mic

Note that later accounts state his daughter survived.

 

[findingZzero]

W/o reading the whole thread has anyone pointed out that most of ISIS's victims are Muslim?
I guess I should read the whole thread.

 

[findingZzero]

I'm not saying that the creation of Israel and the West meddling there hasn't created problems. I am saying (asking), if Israel didn't exist, and we didn't meddle, would the Middle East be a bastion of calm today?

Btw I didn't think so either.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

W/o reading the whole thread has anyone pointed out that most of ISIS's victims are Muslim?
I guess I should read the whole thread.

.

. Plus that most of ISIS victims ARE Muslims.

 

[IndyDave1776]

W/o reading the whole thread has anyone pointed out that most of ISIS's victims are Muslim?
I guess I should read the whole thread.

You present this as if it should be a surprise. The pattern they are following calls for the eradication of infidels, Jews, Christians, and Moslems who don't faithfully/correctly practice Islam. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was in part so troublesome because he considered it his personal responsibility to usher in an apocalypse which would amount to accomplishing those things and instituting a worldwide caliphate. Not surprisingly, some others who would take a similar general view of eradication and apocalypse with the same general prioritization, which is just that, and not a fixed order (i.e., don't walk past an 'apostate' in the hopes of finding a Jew to kill, but rather kill the 'apostate' now and continue on the hunt). The problem that arises next is that not everyone marching this direction agrees on what is 'proper' Islam and who is an 'apostate'.

 

[findingZzero]

I present it because we tend to forget it, not because I'm surprised. Besides, BB1 presented it first..

Ahhh BB1 so that's where I heard it..