The Ferguson thread

[findingZzero]

No. It is a line from a much longer and more involved story. All the facts please.
Sound bite one line intro are fueling a fire that needs to be put out.

It's a headline designed to get you into the tent to read the whole story. It is basically true. If Brown were armed there would be no story. If that is as far as one reads then runs amok welcome to the lowest common denominator. Do you want to live in a world designed for the LCD? As an elitist, I don't....

 

[freekforge]

are the 2 fbi agents that have been shot related to ferguson?

 

[chipbennett]

are the 2 fbi agents that have been shot related to ferguson?

It doesn't *appear* so, at least not directly. It was in nearby Hanley Hills (pretty much a ghetto). I believe they were attempting to serve a warrant:

Two FBI agents shot at house near Ferguson unrest | Reuters

 

[Que]

Are we ready for an open and honest discussion? I am perfectly willing to admit that racism exists. I am perfectly willing to admit that black youth get treated differently, worse, than white youth in many situations.

Are we willing to discuss that we have a real "chicken and egg", or more appropriately "Log and speck" problem with why black youth, in many areas, are treated differently? Sometimes it's racism. Sometimes it's experience.

I am very willing to have an open and honest dialogue. However, this open and honest dialogue includes not only racism, institutional and personal, but why many black communities suffer from crime at the hands of members of their own community...overwhelmingly and disproportionately.

I'm just afraid that many people, regardless of race, are willing only to talk openly and honestly about what they perceive are the faults of others.

Log and speck.

You are among the majority who I believe can actually see what is going on. The main problem in black communities is black people who are allowed to act foolish and then find protection to avoid paying for their acts: don't snitch! The CULTURE needs to change! I'm not afraid of this discussion. Im also not afraid to discuss the reason for fears on both sides. This discussion needs to be had in order for everyone to see and know their concerns are being heard. I Am NOT interested in a "we are all God's children" discussion, though! I want to wrestle with this problem until we are all tired of it.

 

[Vigilant]

are the 2 fbi agents that have been shot related to ferguson?

FNC said a statement from FBI said they were serving a warrant, not immediately related to...

 

[Kirk Freeman]

It is now noon and by using the INGO's Guide How Not to Get Shot by the Police, I remain unshot.

 

[Vigilant]

It is now noon and by using the INGO's Guide How Not to Get Shot by the Police, I remain unshot.

Point me to that guide, I have been playing with fire way too long.

 

[Bill of Rights]

No, it can happen! You have identified our MAIN problem as a country. There needs to be open and honest discussion. Not among the educated elite and wealthy benefactors, but among everyday working people, who are the ones who deal with this madness on a daily basis. I believe this can happen! It will be painful, but it is the only cure for our sickness.

The problem there is not with the individuals. The problem is... well... how many of us know what happened there? I submit that none of us do! We know what the news has reported. We know what we've heard. We know what opinions we've formed, mostly before any of this happened.

When we learn something new, we can do one of three things with that information. We can accept it in its entirety, we can reject it in its entirety, or we can meld it with what we already know or believe to be true.

"A man was shot." Given only that, we can make little determination, other than perhaps one based on the belief that a large percentage of those shot, stabbed, or beaten deserve it. (no, this does not refer to "domestic violence")

"A man was shot by a police officer." Well, now we have more information. Some will take that along with the belief I posted above, others will say that it must be police abusing authority, based solely on the fact that an officer was cited as the shooter.

"A man was shot in the head by a police officer while in the process of attempting to rape the officer's 12-year-old daughter." Oho, so he was presumably off-duty and performing the act not as a cop but as a father, and it's an act most of us would not bat an eye at doing. We've meshed the first stated belief with the rest of the facts, tossed out the police abuse thing, and gotten to the truth.

So how often does the media give us all that detail? We get the "man shot" and "man shot by cop" on the front page, above the fold, but the rest of it gets printed, if at all, on page B7, in a little article buried amongst others in similar print.

Given that, how are we going to have that conversation? People are too busy running their own lives to go to Ferguson and find out the real facts. Even if they're not, how many of us can drop everything and go to Washington to find out what's really happening there? Or San Francisco? Or Dubuque? or any of a million other places where things happen. We are at the mercy of the media, and the media is controlled by those who want to shape society in their own image.

Can the conversations happen? Under the present system, I don't see how. I'd like to. If you see a way, please enlighten me. No sarcasm is intended, this is an honest and sincere request.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[HoughMade]

....I want to wrestle with this problem until we are all tired of it.

That's what it is going to take.

To be transparent, I'm a white guy...surprise, surprise, who grew up in a small, rural town in Michigan. We did not have a lot of African-American people in the community, but probably 20% or so. We ALL came from farm families, whether we were still engaged in that, and we ALL were small town folk. Growing up in that environment, there was little to no racial strife that I could perceive (still isn't). we all had similar values, went to the same schools and churches, shopped in the same stores, etc.

When I moved to Northwest Indiana 19 years, one of the things that shocked me was the segregation and racism. I learned a new euphemism "he's from Gary" or "Gary people" whether they were or not. I found the whole thing disappointing...I still find it disappointing. I find terms like "he's one of the good ones" thrown around all the time and I hate it. There is an us vs. them mentality in the white community that sickens me. I surmise it exists in the black community as well.

I don't have any answers, but wrestling with the problems and being honest and willing to speak the hard truth...in love, seems to be a step in the right direction.

...and I know there are some people who will read this and say: yeah, those people really have a problem....and those ​people are of both races.

 

[JollyMon]

... I want to wrestle with this problem until we are all tired of it.

That's what it is going to take.

I just dont see this happening. We cant even get people to agree with putting pictures on classified ads. How are we going to do anything on such a complex social issue.

 

[Que]

That's what it is going to take.

To be transparent, I'm a white guy...surprise, surprise, who grew up in a small, rural town in Michigan. We did not have a lot of African-American people in the community, but probably 20% or so. We ALL came from farm families, whether we were still engaged in that, and we ALL were small town folk. Growing up in that environment, there was little to no racial strife that I could perceive (still isn't). we all had similar values, went to the same schools and churches, shopped in the same stores, etc.

When I moved to Northwest Indiana 19 years, one of the things that shocked me was the segregation and racism. I learned a new euphemism "he's from Gary" or "Gary people" whether they were or not. I found the whole thing disappointing...I still find it disappointing. I find terms like "he's one of the good ones" thrown around all the time and I hate it. There is an us vs. them mentality in the white community that sickens me. I surmise it exists in the black community as well.

I don't have any answers, but wrestling with the problems and being honest and willing to speak the hard truth...in love, seems to be a step in the right direction.

...and I know there are some people who will read this and say: yeah, those people really have a problem....and those ​people are of both races.

I will start a discussion room here on INGO. We can have some of these hard discussions right here. I think I've taken this thread somewhat off topic, so I'll set something up and invite the members to join. Let's see where it goes.

 

[patience0830]

I have 17 law wnforcement officers in my family (Black and White). They serve in the city or surrounding suburbs of Chicago, Louisville, and Atlanta. Tomorrow afternoon many of us will gather for Thanksgiving and this discussion will surely come up. Overwhelmingly and without a doubt, the first part of the conversation will end with EVERYONE agreeing that Michael Brown made a life-ending decision and what happened was his own fault. We will then talk about personal responsibility and our children will hear the elders discuss expectations as they conduct themselves in public.

Now, after that discussion ends, we will then hear about and discuss the huge disparities in the treatment of people of color compared to majority white citizens, when dealing with police officers. We will talk about how some receive a slap on the wrist while others are carted to jail for similar offenses. There are videos and stories all over the Internet showing similar occurrences and some are even posted on this very forum, but there is no discussion, no outrage, and no anger. If we look at the number of incidents like the Brown case and compare them to those in which officer abuse is found, one could possibly wonder why there aren't more riots; although we all agree riots are not a solution, regardless what Dr. King said on the issue. So, although I am among those who can see that Brown's death was his own fault and the grand jury made the right decision, today is a new day.

The discussion about Brown will go on for a while. The press is getting what they want. The looters are getting what they want. Detractors and supporters are getting what they want. I see of these in the same light: blood-thirsty and wanting to see "them" pay for their hurt, fear, and anger. Yep, you can naturally sense the pain and fear all sides are feeling, just by the words they post on the Internet. The question is, what exactly is the currency to pay off this debt? Who knows. But, until we can all stop pointing at "them", nothing will change... that is, for those of us who truly want to see a change.

QFT!

Good to see you Que. How is your youngster doing at Rose?

 

[printcraft]

Man found dead in car after Ferguson riots | News - Home


I want to know where is the outrage over DeAndre Joshua being killed (shot) while sitting in his car during the riots?
Is it just because a cop didn't do it?
Does it just get swept under the rug as part of the "culture"?

 

[1911ly]

All I can say is Brown's actions caused his death. I'd guess his upbringing influenced his actions. Listening to his mother's rant and stepfather tell the community burn this m** f** down gives you insight to their mentality. They aren't smart. They were raise with a hatred of LEO's. The young man had no respect for the law. Where did he learn this? When will the cycle stop? When those question can be answered we will see change. This kid was perpetuating the stereo the average non black see's. It's sad that we feel that way. I agree. Stop those actions. End the cycle!

I have yet to see a activist (Sharpton etc..) condemn Browns actions that let up to this. They just talk about the fact (as they see it) that Brown should not have been killed. Doesn't matter how much evidence there is proving the officers life was in danger. And there was no other choice.

MSNBC was stating that Brown was well on his way to going to college. Why would a young man that has a bright future want to rob a convenience store? How can that family not address the actions of there child that lead up to this? They have yet to face the fact that there child did wrong. And he is/was not the child they are portraying.

I have a interracial family. I can see the divide in my family over this. I'm sure (just like Que's family) this subject will come up tomorrow. I know what the mindset was before the real evidence came out. It will be interesting to see if the now release evidence will change points of view. Some of my family members were claiming the cop just gunned him down because of his skin color. When the robbery was brought up they refused to believe it was the same kid. I'll report back about it and if any mind were changed with the evidence.

I hope the Ferguson community will heal. And we might see change in the black troubled community's when the Sharpton's and Jackson's etc rush in to these community's when they commit crimes and plead for a change in their actions. Instead of making pathetic excuses and ignoring the real issues.

 

[freekforge]

sounds like its flaring up again tear gas deployed

 

[scootn103]

With everything that is transpiring , businesses that have been burnt to the ground may take the insurance money and chose not to rebuild and re-employ . This could have an accordion effect on the community these people live in. It does not make any sense to me.

 

[chipbennett]

sounds like its flaring up again tear gas deployed

They'd better keep it under control. I've got a plane to catch in a few hours.

 

[Denny347]

I have 17 law wnforcement officers in my family (Black and White). They serve in the city or surrounding suburbs of Chicago, Louisville, and Atlanta. Tomorrow afternoon many of us will gather for Thanksgiving and this discussion will surely come up. Overwhelmingly and without a doubt, the first part of the conversation will end with EVERYONE agreeing that Michael Brown made a life-ending decision and what happened was his own fault. We will then talk about personal responsibility and our children will hear the elders discuss expectations as they conduct themselves in public.

Now, after that discussion ends, we will then hear about and discuss the huge disparities in the treatment of people of color compared to majority white citizens, when dealing with police officers. We will talk about how some receive a slap on the wrist while others are carted to jail for similar offenses. There are videos and stories all over the Internet showing similar occurrences and some are even posted on this very forum, but there is no discussion, no outrage, and no anger. If we look at the number of incidents like the Brown case and compare them to those in which officer abuse is found, one could possibly wonder why there aren't more riots; although we all agree riots are not a solution, regardless what Dr. King said on the issue. So, although I am among those who can see that Brown's death was his own fault and the grand jury made the right decision, today is a new day.

The discussion about Brown will go on for a while. The press is getting what they want. The looters are getting what they want. Detractors and supporters are getting what they want. I see of these in the same light: blood-thirsty and wanting to see "them" pay for their hurt, fear, and anger. Yep, you can naturally sense the pain and fear all sides are feeling, just by the words they post on the Internet. The question is, what exactly is the currency to pay off this debt? Who knows. But, until we can all stop pointing at "them", nothing will change... that is, for those of us who truly want to see a change.

Wow, the last thing I EVER want to talk about in family gatherings is my job...that even comes after politics and religion. Don't even bring up I'm a copper, it's nice to shed the persona even for a few hours.

 

[Denny347]

It is now noon and by using the INGO's Guide How Not to Get Shot by the Police, I remain unshot.

Well I'm still out looking for you so the day's not over yet

 

[Birds Away]

No, it can happen! You have identified our MAIN problem as a country. There needs to be open and honest discussion. Not among the educated elite and wealthy benefactors, but among everyday working people, who are the ones who deal with this madness on a daily basis. I believe this can happen! It will be painful, but it is the only cure for our sickness.

I hope your are right, but I am skeptical. There is a lot at stake and those with a vested political and monetary interest will do everything in their power to ensure this honest conversation never takes place.