The FBI came after my dad today

[rhino]

It bothers me that such credentials/privileges can be granted as political favors.

Kind of like state-issue licenses/permits in state where only the elite receive them.

 

[CarmelHP]

So, did he retire with a Special Agent commission? As far as I can find there is nothing in the published EOs covering this and the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004 is still in force.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

1. Are you certain he was not a Deputy U.S. Marshal? The decision to allow Deputies to carry rests with the U.S. Marshal of that district.

2. Why would the FBI devote such an enormous expenditure of manpower hours to collect creds for another agency? Why not just send a letter and have your father send them in?

Can you talk to your father again?

 

[printcraft]

just sayin, maybe the trips as a kid were cover for "official dooties"

 

[Joe Williams]

See, thats the exact thing though. That is a military commission, law enforcement (ie badge). What I dont understand is if it extends to off duty usage, retirement or if it is the same thing as the OP's father supposedly has?

Cool posting Vigilant, even got the publication number! Got a page or appendix number?

It did not extend to off-duty for us. Turn in my weapon card and get my weapon, and my ID at the same time. Do my job, go back to the armory, turn in my weapon and ID, and get my card back. Didn't get to carry it when I wasn't working. And didn't get to carry it when I was just out on patrol. Only when I was doing the job I actually had it for, in my case driving a general around to occasional special events.

 

[agentl074]

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFI31-207.pdf

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFI31-207.pdf

2.5.2.1. Obtain an AF 523, USAF Authorization To Bear Firearms. Form can be ordered from
the AF publishing website at Air Force E-Publishing - Home .
2.5.2.2. Carry AF 523 when armed.
2.5.3.2. MAJCOMs, including Air National Guard, may authorize personnel to retain an AF 523
when missions require those members to bear a concealed firearm on a regular basis.

2.9. Carrying Firearms as a Passenger Aboard Aircraft. US Air Force military, civilian, and
contract personnel may bear government firearms aboard military or commercial aircraft while
performing official military duties if the mission requires the member to carry a firearm during
the flight. NOTE: See DoDD 5210.56 for additional requirements.
2.9.1. Requirements. Personnel carrying firearms aboard commercial aircraft will comply with
Transportation Security Administration (TSA) guidelines and requirements. Additionally,
personnel carrying firearms aboard military aircraft will notify the aircraft commander prior to
flight.
2.9.2. Authorization. Personnel carrying firearms aboard an aircraft must possess written
authorization to carry firearms, that is, a memorandum of authorization, credentials, etc. NOTE:
Official aircrew orders, along with a current AF 523, will suffice to meet the written
authorization requirements for aircrew personnel aboard military aircraft. When flying on
commercial aircraft, check with your airline or travel agent to see if firearms and ammunition are
permitted, and ask about limitations and fees, if any, that apply.

The AF 523 is only for official use and does not extend to non duty use. However, written authorization from the right people to allow carry can be a very powerful legal privilege. So could certain privileges could theoretically be given for retirees or selected individuals....

 

[Vigilant]

It did not extend to off-duty for us. Turn in my weapon card and get my weapon, and my ID at the same time. Do my job, go back to the armory, turn in my weapon and ID, and get my card back. Didn't get to carry it when I wasn't working. And didn't get to carry it when I was just out on patrol. Only when I was doing the job I actually had it for, in my case driving a general around to occasional special events.

Army MP's were allowed to retain creds off duty if authorized by their commander, but firearms were turned in unless yuo were on a GO prottective team or authorized due to mission requirement.

 

[No Time to Shoot]

My father was security police for the Air Force on silo bases and worked quite a bit with the US Marshals and would have become one if it wasn't for my mom.

I have heard of this lic before and I do believe it has to do with US Marshals durring and after service. But I could be wrong.

I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with military lic.

 

[CarmelHP]

Army MP's were allowed to retain creds off duty if authorized by their commander, but firearms were turned in unless yuo were on a GO prottective team or authorized due to mission requirement.

It appears from the AF instruction posted that it was also only permitted while you held duties that required it. It would be extraordinarily unusual for anyone other than someone commissioned as a Special Agent would be given carte blanche to carry. Marshals are also classed as special agents and would receive retired credentials upon retirement just as FBI, etc do.

 

[cubby]

if anyone has doubts as to the claims of a "white elephant" Fed Carry PERMIT, go check out www.lightfighter.net .....

there is no permit. there are badged deputies and such, but nothing that BLANKETS everything. and, from a ton of reputable sources, you won't be carrying onto an airplane if your civilian (even retired).

i'd be willing to bet, when he carried on to the planes when you were younger, he was deputized or something similiar. thoug, i would love to know the exact details.

and, meach, i don't mean any offense by what i have posted. things like the "fed permit" have been in rotation for as long as teh "registered as a lethal weapon for a black belt" myth.

EDIT: shouldn't have used "civilian" here. should have used "nonLEO" or similiar.

 

[The Meach]

Ok talked to my dad today, here's the answers to a few questions.

The issuing agency was the FBI, that's why they were the ones who came to take it away. But it was a DOD form to get it.

He was issued it when he was based in Ellsworth AFB in South Dakota working in the ARC. It was renewed when he was at Barksdale AFB in Louisiana where the Feds re-labeled the expiration date as "indefinite".

I guess all the controlers had them in the ARC and it was like the permits that the OSI guys carried.

I'm not sure what else i can answer for you guys. Any other specifics ya'll i can pass on to him.

EDIT: I've done some digging and so has my Dad. and looked into the laws regarding the whole fed carry "issue". And you all are absolutely correct. There is No all encompassing Federal Weapons Permit for non-current fed LE/military. As far as we can tell the reason the FBI came to take it away was to "right a wrong". We think that my Dad and a handful of guys from Ellsworth kinda fell through the cracks and were given indefinite permits that they were able to retain even after they left the service.

Thanks for all the questions, If pushed me to look into all of this and its been an interesting trip.

 

[agentl074]

That explains it

 

[CarmelHP]

So, was he a Special Agent? There is no "permit."

 

[agentl074]

The "shield" is not the permit lol. The ID is what empowers the individual. I guess you could call the ID a permit lol. I don't know how OSI used to do it - but they are now federally credentialed special agents - they don't just get a shield lol.

 

[The Meach]

So, was he a Special Agent? There is no "permit."

Nope he wasn't a "special agent" he was just a NCO that worked in a real fun place with some real fun toys

 

[SavageEagle]

That's an interesting story. Thanks for sharing. Its also what they did to him. Should have told the FBI that the 2A was he permit from now on and see what they said!

 

[right winger]

:wtf: Is the governments problem?

 

[lancinator]

how sad, I hope this isn't a sign of what Obama legislation holds for the rest of the country and the carry permits.

 

[rhino]

there is no permit. there are badged deputies and such, but nothing that BLANKETS everything. and, from a ton of reputable sources, you won't be carrying onto an airplane if your civilian (even retired).

How do you figure that? Almost all of the people who are allowed to carry on commercial aircraft are civilians, including Federal Air Marshalls, deputy US Marshalls, FBI special agents, various local law enforcement, etc. I'll bet the percentage of military who are granted the privilege to carry on commerical aircraft is tiny by comparison.

 

[rhino]

how sad, I hope this isn't a sign of what Obama legislation holds for the rest of the country and the carry permits.

I'm not saying it's pertinent to this topic, but the current President has stated outright that he doesn't think private citizens should be allowed to carry guns. He'd rescind all of our licenses and permits in a heartbeat if he could.