The Aftermath of the Whirligigs

[wagyu52]

It will ruin the scenery, that's what the Kennedy clan said when they talked about putting them off shore at Martha's Vinyard. Anytime someone wants to put somthing in your back yard but not theirs, it's bad.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Good stuff. Let's talk more geotech and sub-surface investigations!

Then if the soil is clay, let's not ignore the effects of thixotropy as it is worked. Particle randomization leading to an increase in volume and decrease in load bearing capacity due to decreased viscosity.

 

[Tactically Fat]

Then if the soil is clay, let's not ignore the effects of thixotropy as it is worked. Particle randomization leading to an increase in volume and decrease in load bearing capacity due to decreased viscosity.

That's fun to see in person with a gel made out of corn starch and water.

But I admit that it wasn't something talked about much in regards to my short geotech career.

Liquefaction yes - thixotropy as the term used - no.

 

[shibumiseeker]

That's fun to see in person with a gel made out of corn starch and water.

But I admit that it wasn't something talked about much in regards to my short geotech career.

Liquefaction yes - thixotropy as the term used - no.

Geology geek here. Soil engineers don't use the term as much as it more gets into the mechanism of a specific kind of liquefaction, and we see it in caves frequently.

 

[funeralweb]

US 27 thru Fountain City was closed for a month last Fall to remove old surface and install new. The INDOT project manager told me on Veterans Day that the repair would not last longer than 3-4 years. They were back in town 2 weeks ago to make repairs/changes to their mistakes.

 

[Tactically Fat]

US 27 thru Fountain City was closed for a month last Fall to remove old surface and install new. The INDOT project manager told me on Veterans Day that the repair would not last longer than 3-4 years. They were back in town 2 weeks ago to make repairs/changes to their mistakes.

Because no one wants to pay what it would take to REALLY fix it.

Plus it's MUCH easier to get repair/maintenance funding than it is to obtain replacement funding. Silly, but it is what it is.

Then you add in to how freaking long the whole process takes to propose, to design, traffic study, traffic projections, request funding, do geotech investigation, to back and re-design based on geotech findings, re-submit for funding... And then all of a sudden even your projected traffic count turns out to be too low and by this point you're already doing construction at which point you know that you'll have to be back at it again in a few years. Hello I-69 between 465 and SR 37/116th St, I'm looking at you.

Also: South bound I-65 south of 465 down near Greenwood. They're re-doing the south-bound Co. Ln. Rd entrance ramp. Drove by there yesterday and they were actually laying asphalt. Drove further south and saw zones that didn't yet have the subgrade and subbase layed. There were PLENTY of very obvious very soft spots in the compacted soil. Painfully obvious if I can notice them going 50mph in a vehicle driving by. Those spots WILL turn into HUGE holes in the new road in short order. Awesome!

 

[oldpink]

US 27 thru Fountain City was closed for a month last Fall to remove old surface and install new. The INDOT project manager told me on Veterans Day that the repair would not last longer than 3-4 years. They were back in town 2 weeks ago to make repairs/changes to their mistakes.

Funny that you should mention that exact area.
My second cousin married a gal from that exact area, and she mentioned the same problems.
Just buttresses my point, doesn't it?

 

[oldpink]

[...edited for brevity...]
Also: South bound I-65 south of 465 down near Greenwood. They're re-doing the south-bound Co. Ln. Rd entrance ramp. Drove by there yesterday and they were actually laying asphalt. Drove further south and saw zones that didn't yet have the subgrade and subbase layed. There were PLENTY of very obvious very soft spots in the compacted soil. Painfully obvious if I can notice them going 50mph in a vehicle driving by. Those spots WILL turn into HUGE holes in the new road in short order. Awesome!

Seriously, the people doing the roads need to hire a whole team personally taught by you!

 

[churchmouse]

Strange, you would think that with all the high tech and massive government subsidies these people could get fixing a road done correctly.

Follow the money man.....follow it.

 

[IndyDave1776]

So much fail here...

This is a prime example of why something that is not self-sustaining without government subsidy should never be done. (Please keep in mind that this is a statement to remain within context. I understand that a number of government services like fire protection, law enforcement, etc., are not self-sustaining, but are not under consideration here.)

If most people understood the nature of highway construction both in terms of how it is done correctly and how it is done in practice, there would be a run on rope by the end of the day.

If most people understood the political shenanigans which stand in the way of the job being done properly, there would be wailing and gnashing of teeth over the fact that the shelves were already empty of rope before they got around to the politicians.

 

[Hohn]

I used to work for a testing company doing soil compaction testing with nuclear densometers. One thing that happens when big trucks rumble over an area is that the pavement will break down and then the subgrade soil starts to actually loose compaction when the truck tires roll over it when it's wet. The tires "squish" more and more water deeper and deeper into those spots. Then, even after it's dried up, the voids are still there and the next time it rains, it sucks up more water and gets squishy all over again.

When they fixed the road, they probably broke up the pavement, removed it, then they probably rolled a vibratory roller over and called it good. The roller rode over the squishy spots and compacted the surface, but left the squishy soft centers there. You can pave over them, but those pictures show what happens when you do.

Kind of like when you paint over rotten wood or soft plaster, it looks good, for a little while.

So what's the right way? Using one of those rollers with all the gnarly bumps on them? It seems like those would compact more deeply.

 

[Hohn]

Because no one wants to pay what it would take to REALLY fix it.

Also: South bound I-65 south of 465 down near Greenwood. They're re-doing the south-bound Co. Ln. Rd entrance ramp. Drove by there yesterday and they were actually laying asphalt. Drove further south and saw zones that didn't yet have the subgrade and subbase layed. There were PLENTY of very obvious very soft spots in the compacted soil. Painfully obvious if I can notice them going 50mph in a vehicle driving by. Those spots WILL turn into HUGE holes in the new road in short order. Awesome!

Not to mention that we insist on paying not for a durable road, but for the process that produces a road, as if having a bunch of workers and heavy equipment create long term hazards on the road is by itself a desirable thing.


A smarter approach to contracting these things would be to bid out the price of the road and have it such that the builder had to have some kind of durability skin in the game. Perhaps make it so that the cost of repairs at a later date would be born by that builder-- and the builder couldn't repair it themselves, but had to hire another party to do the work. (I.e., the DOT would hire the repair contractor and bill it back to the original builder).

Or mandate some kind of 'road insurance' and let the company writing the liability policy verify the quality of the road.