TGI Friday's not carry friendly

[the1kidd03]

that sucks about the fridays in avon. my mom and step dad frequent that place quite a bit and i have cc there quite often. the bar staff there is pretty awesome, and have always taken very good care of us. ill have to switch to OC and maybe bring in a copy of corporate policy with me. i think im off on thursday, well see what happens. btw, the applebees in avon has always been bad.
just for the record of avon restaurants, city barbeque has never said a word about oc in the many times i have been there. you can add that to your map.

Applebees in Avon "bad" in terms of food or for OCing? I've OCed there many times without any issue. Have also at OTHER TGIF's without any issues, but apparently this manager doesn't care for it in Avon. Let us know how your OC there goes on Thursday.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

That sucks, but you both handled yourselves well. I have OC'd in my local Friday's and Applebees several times, I have even talked to the local manager about it at Applebees and they had no problem with it as long as it was legal.

 

[the1kidd03]

nO one is stripping anyone of rights. You cannot carry your unlimited rights onto my property and do as you wish or YOU have stripped ME of MY rights. I was doing just fine until you forced me to give up my personal property rights.

We just decide if seeing chicks with 30 pieces of flair is worth voluntarily giving up a right for an hour. No stripping involved here.

LOL, how does it work one way an not the other?

Using your property rights to strip me and my family of our rights to protection is no different than using our rights to the 2nd amendment to strip you of your property rights. THAT is why such practices should be illegal IMO. Such as using the 1st amendment right to strip someone of theirs. One person's rights are no more important than any others. For that reason, we must look at alternative solutions. In this case, the problem concerns that of public safety. If your business is going to grant access to any old run of the mill walk in customer (public) and thereby not ensuring those entering have no bad intentions and armed, then it is your responsibility as a business to provide adequate protection for your patrons. If you do not provide this, then you are ethically in the wrong for banning carry of law abiding citizens. This is basically saying "my bank account means more to me than the public's and my customers' safety." If you're open to the public, then you should provide adequate security or allow law abiding citizens to carry. PUBLIC safety is far more important than ANY individuals' rights by nature of numbers (the greater good.) Hence, if you're open to the PUBLIC then they should be safe. If you cannot ensure that, than IMO you should not be able to tell them they cannot protect themselves.

 

[the1kidd03]

That sucks, but you both handled yourselves well. I have OC'd in my local Friday's and Applebees several times, I have even talked to the local manager about it at Applebees and they had no problem with it as long as it was legal.

First time for me too, but there's plenty of other establishments that will accept my money and the gun on my hip.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

As far as property rights vs the Right to Carry:

They CANNOT tell you that you cannot carry there, it is beyond the scope of their authority and rights, but they CAN refuse service to you and ask that you leave. Period. It really is just that simple here.

 

[hoosierdoc]

LOL, how does it work one way an not the other?

Using your property rights to strip me and my family of our rights to protection is no different than using our rights to the 2nd amendment to strip you of your property rights. THAT is why such practices should be illegal IMO. Such as using the 1st amendment right to strip someone of theirs. One person's rights are no more important than any others. For that reason, we must look at alternative solutions. In this case, the problem concerns that of public safety. If your business is going to grant access to any old run of the mill walk in customer (public) and thereby not ensuring those entering have no bad intentions and armed, then it is your responsibility as a business to provide adequate protection for your patrons.

So can I walk onto your yard and start reading Roots at the top of my lungs at 3am via megaphone? It's my free speech right to do so. Being denied rights pertains to your own property and public places. You do not have unlimited rights on someone else's property, plain and simple.

Restaurants are not obligated to protect you and their lack of armed security does not entitle you to set the rules on someone else's property.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

As far as property rights vs the Right to Carry:

They CANNOT tell you that you cannot carry there, it is beyond the scope of their authority and rights, but they CAN refuse service to you and ask that you leave. Period. It really is just that simple here.

So can I walk onto your yard and start reading Roots at the top of my lungs at 3am via megaphone? It's my free speech right to do so. Being denied rights pertains to your own property and public places. You do not have unlimited rights on someone else's property, plain and simple.

Restaurants are not obligated to protect you and their lack of armed security does not entitle you to set the rules on someone else's property.

Yep...if you don't like the rules and amenities of an establishment you have the right to not give them your business.

 

[hoosierdoc]

As far as property rights vs the Right to Carry:

They CANNOT tell you that you cannot carry there, it is beyond the scope of their authority and rights, but they CAN refuse service to you and ask that you leave. Period. It really is just that simple here.

He's making the point much better than me. It's not about them denying you the right to carry, they are denying you cheese sticks because you are carrying.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

He's making the point much better than me. It's not about them denying you the right to carry, they are denying you cheese sticks because you are carrying.

EXACTLY! Look at it from the other side and it is more apparent. It could be your green shirt they don't like it really doesn't matter. You keep all of your rights, they keep all of theirs.

 

[the1kidd03]

So can I walk onto your yard and start reading Roots at the top of my lungs at 3am via megaphone? It's my free speech right to do so. Being denied rights pertains to your own property and public places. You do not have unlimited rights on someone else's property, plain and simple.

Restaurants are not obligated to protect you and their lack of armed security does not entitle you to set the rules on someone else's property.

On your personal property no, but you are not conducting open to the public business in your yard. Since the nature of such businesses is to welcome the public in without selection, then the circumstances are different. By allowing everyone access you have also invited potential criminals, which is what ethically obligates the business to provide protective measures in the interest of public safety. Its not a legal obligation, but I can certainly see a victorious lawsuit out of it one day.

 

[williamrights]

I had an officer tell me yesterday he would draw on a person OCing in a bank. "The only reason anyone brings a gun into a bank is to rob it." I was taken aback and told him he was quite wrong. I had yet to rob a bank and brought my gun in numberous times. He thought it was illegal, after being told no, he then said it should be. Also told me it was illegal to carry at a polling station or firehouse. Heh.

I have had a problem in a bank to the point that the officer swore in an affadavit (sp) that I was violent and or mentally unstable because I was open carrying in a bank that I had actually gained approval from. Long story short he threatened to arrest me and or take my gun if he "cuaght me" doing it again. They suspended my license. He committed provable perjury on the stand. The judge actually rolled his eyes apologized to me and I received my license back. I was 22 at the time had 2 bachelors owned my house and rental property was a single parent and had a 40 hour a week job and absolutely zero criminal history. I had sworn statements from 12 of my proffesors swearing to my stability and the father of the chick I knocked up went with me to the hearing from Fort Wayne to Indy to attest to my stability. It boiled down to the fact that the officer did not like the fact that i quoted him state law that day and I also told him if he arrested me for doing nothing illegal it would be felony criminal confinement. My new bank has not a care in the world when I carry there. One teller had a near panic attack but the vault manager assured her that I was not the problem. Also if that is the only reason was he carrying to rob the bank. I see a paradox or irony.

 

[hoosierdoc]

By allowing everyone access you have also invited potential criminals, which is what ethically obligates the business to provide protective measures in the interest of public safety. Its not a legal obligation, but I can certainly see a victorious lawsuit out of it one day.

So you are in favor of McDonald's being named in a lawsuit if someone runs in the door and shoots a customer? time to move on, I can't learn anything here

 

[Jtgarner]

Okay, I read the whole story... and the first 5 pages of this thread, and I have to chime in.
As mentioned your wife did a great job, but I feel your pain with wanting to educate them.

I wanted to comment on the Applebee's thing since I work at one. It is company policy to not allow EMPLOYEES to carry a gun while working (I have done so when closing before) but there is no policy about guests. We have had guests carry in our store (Bloomington) without issue. Mr. Habib has actually been one of them I have actually pointed out people who were carrying to my managers specifically so that they could notice that they were not causing any issues and were more valuable customers than those who weren't (from a security POV). I know Bloomington is a liberal town, but most of the time it is the manager's decision to enforce a made up policy on the spot. That is why I like to try to educate them (and ask to see a copy of the policy to prove that it is indeed not a real policy).

 

[KG1]

I still am not sure how to react to these stories. Private businesses set their policy and we can either violate and be OK, or violate and be asked to leave if it is anti-gun. This manager at least was nice about it. Perhaps our goal is simply to change policy for private businesses but let's not get upset that certain businesses choose to have policies in opposition to our beliefs.

I don't have a problem with private business's setting corporate policy's but where I do take issue is when employees of those business's take it upon themselves to set policy based on their own fears and misconceptions that may run contrary to corporate.

 

[hoosierdoc]

I don't have a problem with private business's setting corporate policy's but where I do take issue is when employees of those business's take it upon themselves to set policy based on their own fears and misconceptions that may run contrary to corporate.

Managers have discretion. If their discretion proves unwise and harms the business, they are no longer managers. The issue here then isn't about guns, but we're upset a manager is not following TGI Fridays guidelines? I figured that would be in break room.

OP Said TGI Fridays not carry friendly which appears to have been appropriately corrected. This particular agent of TGI Fridays is not carry friendly.

(I really did plan to move on but we had a 3 minute delay in the car trip and I had an iPhone.... )

 

[KG1]

Managers have discretion. If their discretion proves unwise and harms the business, they are no longer managers. The issue here then isn't about guns, but we're upset a manager is not following TGI Fridays guidelines? I figured that would be in break room.

OP Said TGI Fridays not carry friendly which appears to have been appropriately corrected. This particular agent of TGI Fridays is not carry friendly.

(I really did plan to move on but we had a 3 minute delay in the car trip and I had an iPhone.... )

So you feel that it's okay for any employee to make up policy on the spot and ask someone to leave based on their own fear of a firearm?

I would also add that this is about policies concerning carrying a firearm because that was the gist of the original post so the comment about the break room is un-warranted.

 

[Faine]

very odd

I OC'd in that specific one less than a month ago, sat in a seat where my OC was clearly visible to about 1/4 of the patrons and noticed the manager look down to my hip when she came to see how our food was. I had NO interaction with anyone about my carrying that day. Maybe it's just the person you get....

 

[KG1]

I OC'd in that specific one less than a month ago, sat in a seat where my OC was clearly visible to about 1/4 of the patrons and noticed the manager look down to my hip when she came to see how our food was. I had NO interaction with anyone about my carrying that day. Maybe it's just the person you get....

See this is an example of the problem I have with employees setting their own policies on the fly. The interaction here differed from the one the OP had at the same location.

I am assuming that the managers were different ones and there'in lies the problem. You could show up one time and everything goes hunky dory with one manager and then show up at a different time thinking everything is cool but now you have a different manager saying it's a problem.

That is why corporate sets policy guidelines for employees to follow to eliminate inconsistencies based on someones personal fears and misconceptions that may differ from someone else's which in turn can be bad for business.

 

[bluewraith]

It seems like all the issues with these restaurant or public store problems is people open carry and other people freak out. I said this in another thread, and it is conceal carry. It'll set your mind at ease still because your gun is still there and it'll set uneducated and squimish anti gun people in a false sense of ease.

 

[hoosierdoc]

So you feel that it's okay for any employee to make up policy on the spot and ask someone to leave based on their own fear of a firearm?

I would also add that this is about policies concerning carrying a firearm because that was the gist of the original post so the comment about the break room is un-warranted.

Is it OK? Sure, it's their store. Do I agree with it? No. That's where being "the man" comes in. They can decide to serve ketchup with their chicken wings because they are terrified of ranch dressing and ask me to leave if I'm going to insist on having ranch on my table. It doesn't make them a jerk, a JBT, a limp-noodle weenie, just a weirdo who I will not do business with.

The break room comment wasn't meant as a slam, I was trying to be a bit snarky and saying this boils down to whether a store can set their own rules or not. Clearly they can. If we don't accept that a store has the right to decide their own rules it's possible we'll look like a bunch of jerks trying to push our beliefs on others. Kinda like the anti-smoking ban (not that I want to dig that up again). There were smoking establishments. People complained and now private businesses cannot decide for themselves what type of business they will run. If someone proposed a law saying that businesses cannot refuse entry to someone carrying a gun I would oppose it along similar lines.