Tactical Response at it again. Dangerous and Unprofessional ?

[Double T]

 

[Kirk Freeman]

[video=youtube;AiyLXgEbhQw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiyLXgEbhQw[/video]

Pincus is dropping an unloaded gun onto a cardboard pad and it ends up on the deck pointing towards him. Get your pitchforks!

Yes, this is called the Malloy Drill.

 

[OakRiver]

A quick google search of your boy Tom Givens shows the first line, "After completing a 25-year career in law enforcement" (which we know differs from James Yeager's career) which means he's developed the mindset over the years of being accountable for his shots and his image in relation to firearms use. If he pulls his pistol he better be right.

The mindset development you speak of is (for lack of a better term) a completely different school of thought. When LEOs can sit in a classroom for numerous hours a year and talk about the psychology of shooting and the physiology involved, the cultural stigmas, the related actions required they tend to drift toward "good citizen shoots bad guy in self defense scenario." Since all the actual shooting training of that is done on a golf course or in a shoot house - a controlled environment - it's done with rigid safety standards in place because the mindset has already been developed. You don't play with guns... you only use them as a last resort and only when the bad guy leaves you no option.

Yeager and 'nem aren't too concerned with that because they're fighting zombies.
. . .
Yeager and 'nem are playing zombie hunter in a post-apocalyptic fantasy land where law and order has broken down. (Might be Baghdad, might be 20 seconds at an ATM) They're taken someone who's most likely had ZERO training on high-risk scenario management and in the course of a day or two, training them to be ninja warriors.

While gun control advocates are firmly entrenched in their camp and aren't budging anytime soon how do you think that reads to someone on the fence, or just beginning to educate themselves on firearms? Because that person's perception is no longer responsible adult learning skills to defend them and their loved ones, it is now immature man children treating firearms as toys. It is a great way to lose the culture war, especially with TR's public face being so vocal.

Between being taught to shoot zombies/ninja training and being taught how to make the right shot I think I'll go with the right shot. I accepted a long time ago that I am low speed high drag, even with my beard.

What does all of this have to do with the ski poles? They are for spearing those little brats!

Ah! I thought they were for making smores at the end of the day

 

[LCSOSgt11]

It is time for that "instructor" to become a "student" again. He/she should be banned from that range, fired from the company, and forgotten about. I would have walked off the range prior to the ND occurring. Apparently he/she forgot that tools need to be taken care of, not abused.

 

[SteveM4A1]

Like what?

If the guy felt unsafe after the ND, why did he stay? Why didn't he speak up after the class and ask for his money back?

I'm not completely up to date on what the individual stated online or how it was stated, but it seems he/she had ample opportunity to raise hell at the class about it. I'm not one to act like everything is okay to someone's face and then bash them later to others.

Of course, I could be mistaken on how this went down.

 

[Rookie]

If the guy felt unsafe after the ND, why did he stay? Why didn't he speak up after the class and ask for his money back?

I'm not completely up to date on what the individual stated online or how it was stated, but it seems he/she had ample opportunity to raise hell at the class about it. I'm not one to act like everything is okay to someone's face and then bash them later to others.

Of course, I could be mistaken on how this went down.

Name: Brian Bragg
Email:
Phone:
Body: It has taken me 36 hours to compose myself enough to write this email. I attended the fighting pistol class in Sacramento as a fill in for a friend that could not make it. I accepted the cost and looked forward to learning something new, from someone new.
I have trained for the last 4 hrs under Frontsight and believe that an open mind should always be there for new ideas. Boy was I wrong.

At the end of day one I was wondering, is this all there is, no way, I will bet tomorrow will be the day that this thing hits hyper drive. So, I came back. The beginning of day started with a very good lecture, similar in many ways to what I have heard from Brad Ackman of Front sight, but good none the less. Then just before we would move down to the range, my buddy Drew was giving the instructor a little grief for stepping on his Glock the day before and scratching it. This is when my experience went from bad to the worst day of firearms training in my 54 years. The instructor in a show of bravado tossed his newer Sig to the ground to prove a point. Then he stepped on it to give a little extra grind. Then the worst happened, and the gun discharged and shot right through the front tire of Drews truck and ricochet off the gravel to nowhere. I was there with a group of 5 of us, and we are all lucky none of us got hit in the line of fire. Holy ****, are you kidding me? In retrospect I should have walked to my car and left right then. But I think we were in shock and feeling pity for the instructor and feeling his embarrassment wanted it not to be real. But now that it has all sunk in I am furious.

My 11 yr old son and 14 yr old daughter could have lost their father. At the end of the class we are huddled together and then asked in a group, if your not satisfied and want a refund, speak now or forever hold your peace. I did not want to speak out alone and I should have. Yes I want a refund. I learned what not to do that second day and nothing more. The lax range and drills were dangerous, and you shot my friends truck and could have killed me or one of my friends, yes I want a refund, and never go back to a Tactical Response class again. Tyler Thalman paid my ticket in his credit card. Yes I want a refund. That's the least you can do. I know you bought Drew 2 new front tires, it's the least you can do. I got **** from people talking down Frint sight as a cookie cutter school. Bull****, I have been there 22 times and learned everything you taught in the class, plus they have never shot my friends truck. I am just getting worked up again. Please refund my course cost back to Tyler Thalmans credit card and don't offer me any free training in the future. I have seen all I need to see. I I'll not post to Facebook or any other social media my experience. I don't roll like that. For Christ sake, he shot my buddies truck and could have killed us.

Brian Bragg

 

[Rookie]

On Feb 20, 2016, at 1:55 PM, James Yeager <jamesyeager@tacticalresponse.com> wrote:
Mr. Bragg,

Any hopes at cooperation on this end vanished with your foul mouthed condescending email. In the future I suggest you at least try a gentlemanly approach and get nasty if you find the subject uncooperative.

Good bye.

James Yeager
Tactical Response MFCEO

 

[Destro]

On Feb 20, 2016, at 1:55 PM, James Yeager <jamesyeager@tacticalresponse.com> wrote:
Mr. Bragg,

Any hopes at cooperation on this end vanished with your foul mouthed condescending email. In the future I suggest you at least try a gentlemanly approach and get nasty if you find the subject uncooperative.

Good bye.

James Yeager
Tactical Response MFCEO

Soon Buck will grow tired of individualized responses and just start threatening to get his "lawyer" involved. That's John's first move.

 

[Rookie]

Am I the only one who sees the stupidity of him whining about someone being foul mouthed and condescending?

 

[SteveM4A1]

Am I the only one who sees the stupidity of him whining about someone being foul mouthed and condescending?

lol yup.

btw thanks for the email, hadn't seen that.

 

[bobzilla]

Am I the only one who sees the stupidity of him whining about someone being foul mouthed and condescending?

I believe the word you are looking for is hypocrit. And yes, the irony of that is absolutely mind blowing.

 

[Libertarian01]

For what it is worth I remember hearing about a study in my psychology class some years ago. It goes to the difference between practicing a thing and merely rehearsing/visualizing in your mind doing a thing.

A college study took three (3) separate groups of people to shoot basketball free throws. They were all tested making free throws to set a baseline.

Group #1 was given one (1) hour a day to actually get on the court and shoot free throws, physically practicing making the shots.

Group #2 was given the same amount of time as Group 1 to visualize themselves shooting the free throws. They were allowed to be in the room, look at the court, and run through what they should do in their mind.

Group #3 was given no time to practice and simply led onto the court to shoot free throws.

After 30 days each group was brought back in to test how much they improved. Obviously, Group #1 did the best and Group #3 did the worst. Group #1 improved their free throws by 24%. Group #2 improved by 23%, insignificantly below Group #1!!! Group #3 obviously didn't improve at all.

This is basic education/training 101. IF it is truly necessary to practice doing something that could be considered "ill advised" then a professional educator would have their students either visualize the action or use some other safe method to accomplish the same results.

What it appears has happened here is that you may(?) have subject matter experts who have no clue how to educate people. This is often, sadly, the case. I have a very good friend who has her masters degree in adult education. She is now a project manager overseeing many training program contracts for her small business. When she was the one doing writing the manuals and designing the training she would spend a massive amount of hours on the phone speaking with subject matter experts. She herself became very knowledgeable about the topic, but still wouldn't consider herself an expert due to the years of experience the subject matter experts had received. However, being a subject matter expert is NOT the same as being able to train/teach a topic. This is why the good companies or organizations would call her company to make high quality training courses for their members or employees.

There is a huge difference between knowing a subject and being able to teach that subject! Also, we all learn in different ways. There are learners who are visual, aural, verbal, physical, logical, social, and solitary. A great educator like my friend will design a course to meet each of those preferred learning styles so that someone who needs to be physical gets the same amount of time as someone who needs to be social. Most subject matter experts will likely have no clue how to design a training program to transfer their knowledge to this variety of learning styles, let alone even being aware of these differences. Also, certain subject matter experts may even resist altering their training or focus as they do not see the importance of these differences. After all, they learned it a certain way and that was good enough for them.

Intentionally dropping a gun seems unnecessary to me. If it is truly necessary, then drop a plastic gun instead of a real one. It would accomplish the same thing without the foolishness.

Regards,

Doug

 

[Destro]

Am I the only one who sees the stupidity of him whining about someone being foul mouthed and condescending?

no...but it's pretty much expected

 

[KG1]

I support JY's condescending foul mouth.

 

[The Professor]

Am I the only one who sees the stupidity of him whining about someone being foul mouthed and condescending?

That's Yeager. When he can't argue a point or doesn't want to do something, he spouts all types of bull****. At some point, expect him to challenge the other guy to a fight, or something equally as asinine.

Soon, a YouTube video will go up with Yeager angrily ejaculating all sorts of ridiculous posturing including chest beating, podium-pounding and the inevitable finger-poking-into-empty air. This will highlight the various claims and empty threats bellowed out by Mr. Alpha Male.

The best thing to is for the complainant to have his friend refute the charges on his card and for this incident to be spread as far and wide as possible. Not only was the vetting of this trainer obviously faulty (which brings into question every other decision made), but it's time for this group of trainers to just go away as it is my personal, not-so-humble opinion that they taint the perceptions of all those who seek professional training.

The Professor

 

[Kirk Freeman]

training them to be ninja warriors

Always with the ninjas with these guys. You can't swing your horse chopping sabers about if you cannot even handle your swords correctly.

Go to school and learn gunhandling. Stop making excuses for unsafe practices just so you can feel special. Pointing guns at people is stupid, reckless and criminal. Stomping on guns to "learn" is moronic.

After mindset (be aware and following Hackathorn's First Rule) gunhandling is the most important aspect of the gun culture. Proper gun handling (pssst, the Four Rules) protects ourselves, our family, our fellow members of the gun culture, and the gun culture itself.

The biggest threat to us all is the guy in the mirror, not zombies, not bears, not drug dealers in Indianapolis, or ninjas or any other fantasy that people construct to sell training.

As the wise philosopher-king of INGO says, everyone wants to be a ninja, no one wants to stand in horse stance.

 

[protias]

I'm assuming you guys didn't read the AR-15 link that was posted? Read page 13 for Yeager's statement.

I'll help everyone out:


"Hello Alumni,

Well now that you have trained with us you are a part of our family…our big dysfunctional family. As I write this message I haven’t spoken with my crew that taught your Fighting Pistol class in Sacramento but I can still draw a conclusion. One of my instructors, [instructor name removed], did something that was not in our curriculum, was not authorized, was not allowed, is not condoned and was very reckless, dangerous and negligent. We are all very fortunate no person was injured.

People from your class are already telling this story on-line and, of course, as it turns from an eyewitness account into gossip the story will get more and more outlandish. One day it will be so preposterous you yourself will have to interject that you were there, and that is not what happened, and you will be scoffed at. Such is life… I thank those of you who have not gone on-line and bashed us.
Well, I certainly cannot take that errant round back but I can deal with the consequences. I can tell you that [instructor name removed] has never done anything like this before. It is still hard for me to believe he even did it! It is very unlike him but facts are facts. So I am left with what to do with [instructor name removed]. I simply cannot do "nothing” but what do you do with a devoted employee that has worked very hard to be good at his job that does a hair brained thing like this? It is even tougher when this knucklehead is my friend. We are a close knit team here at Tactical Response.

So I am left with the aftermath to sort through and clean up. I have to decide to fire a guy on his "first offense” or if I should suspend him or make him do remedial training. There are many wrong answers and no 100% right one. Any decision like this weighs heavily on my heart.

I will end with this – I GIVE YOU MY WORD that nothing like this will ever happen again in one of my classes and I SINCERELY APOLOGIZE to every student in that class for his unprofessional display. It was WRONG and will NEVER happen again.

James Yeager - MFCEO"

I call BS. The story is told and once it is put online, it can be forever researched (by time stamp).

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Yes, this is called the Malloy Drill.

Do you consider this to be acceptable gunhandling?

I am asking, not to justify Tim Morris dropping his loaded gun and stepping on it until it discharged, nor to justify dropping loaded guns in class, but as part of my effort to evaluate my own gun handling. Several people think this is not acceptable gun handling as is evidenced in this thread. Several people think this is acceptable gun handling.

Since you think about these things, what is your opinion, is this acceptable gun handling?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Do you consider this to be acceptable gunhandling?

No, Malloy knew better than to carry like that and he paid for it.

Everyone else should learn from it and stop doing it, not emulate it.

 

[OakRiver]

Am I the only one who sees the stupidity of him whining about someone being foul mouthed and condescending?

It is because he doesn't have an answer and he knows it, so he is looking for an out and the cursing was it. That is why if you are ever returning a product/complaining about service and you are in the right don't swear because the other party will use it as an excuse to end the conversation.