Surrendering your weapon

[Titanium_Frost]

I know this thread is semi-old (around 20 days) but I have read it from start to finish and have a few scenarios I would like interpreted. I carry openly in a Blackhawk Serpa on my right hip.

Ok, I've been lit up and see the red and blue behind me. There is one way I can think that would keep my firearm out of the possession of the officer that I would like some feedback on. Realistically for safety's sake I'd prefer to keep it in my holster, but I'd prefer even more for a third party (law enforcement or not) to not be handling my weapon.

* Removing the gun from the holster, and slipping it in the center console, under the seat, in the glovebox, or some other out-of-plain-sight location. I do realize the officer will be watching for movements so I would be concerned that this, in and of itself, would escalate the stop before I even spoke to them and, as such, effectively make this less than useful. I'm not sure if these movements would give PC/RS to search, but I would hope not.

An alternative to simply putting it somewhere out of plain sight is putting it into a locked gun case (say a GunVault Nano).

Ideally I'd prefer to just have my drivers license, registration, proof of insurance, and LTCH ready when they get to the window. Some do not like the idea of providing the LTCH up front - but if I am carrying it openly on my hip and feel it's going to be easily visible - I will hand the LTCH over first thing as I will be asked about it unless the officer has no situational awareness.

A third, and even simpler option, is to have something to throw over my side/hip/console to effectively make the weapon concealed (in which case, I would not hand over LTCH immediately).

I'm no lawyer, and I'm not law enforcement, so I'm certainly happy to hear your thoughts.

I do not unholster and hand my weapon over to others without first unloading it - and it's doubtful during the interactions with a police officer that I will be permitted to do so. If they're separating my weapon from me for Officer Safety, then allowing me to handle and unload the gun isn't going to happen, imho.

Mike, you are perfectly legal and normal to OC in Indiana, don't make it look like you are doing something nefarious by hiding your gun or other suspicious behavior. If you feel like it, inform them of your weapon but just know that you are not required to under IC even if you OC.

 

[Double T]

If you are pulled over, don't even touch your handgun. No reason to act suspicious. Whenever an officer comes to my window my hands are 10-2 until they ask me for registration.

I also do not keep it in the glove box. Less area for me to have to go for it, and it fits nicely under my sunglasses clip on the sunshade.

There is no need to inform, and no need for seizure of your weapon unless you are deemd "dangerous" to yourself or others.

 

[Tydeeh22]

got pulled over heading to the range once.. man i had fun with that leo.

 

[MikeDVB]

Mike, you are perfectly legal and normal to OC in Indiana, don't make it look like you are doing something nefarious by hiding your gun or other suspicious behavior. If you feel like it, inform them of your weapon but just know that you are not required to under IC even if you OC.

If you are pulled over, don't even touch your handgun. No reason to act suspicious. Whenever an officer comes to my window my hands are 10-2 until they ask me for registration.

I also do not keep it in the glove box. Less area for me to have to go for it, and it fits nicely under my sunglasses clip on the sunshade.

There is no need to inform, and no need for seizure of your weapon unless you are deemd "dangerous" to yourself or others.

Those are my thoughts as well, removing it from the holster and placing it elsewhere could very easily be interpreted as nefarious by the officer. I wouldn't know if that alone would be PC for a search.

Honestly, I just really don't want somebody not experienced with my weapon trying to unload it and/or handling it. It's one thing if I discharge it myself out of negligence, and entirely other thing if the officer does. Best case, some property is damaged - worst case - somebody dies.

I was speaking with friends who carry today about this very situation and one of them told me about a time they were pulled over for a seatbelt. The officer disarmed him and took the gun back to his cruiser...

The friend sat and waited around 10 minutes for the officer to come back with a warning, an unloaded gun, and missing one round. The officer was nice/polite and complimented my friend on the weapon but apologized for losing a round under his seat that he couldn't get to/find/retrieve...

I have only been pulled over a couple of times in over 10 years of driving, and both times I've had those infractions dismissed as they were baloney... Here's hoping I can avoid being pulled over in the future.

 

[seamus]

I began scrolling through and saw the "I've never had a cop as for my gun." responses.
I have been pulled over NUMEROUS times, by local, and state police, typically for speeding, and each one began the same way; me holding my bright pink LTCH out the window in my left hand, with my right hand hanging out the window. From there its "Wheres your gun?" "Is it loaded?" and "I'm gonna need to verify that it isn't stolen."

Now, previously I didn't have a problem with this AT ALL, even when one statie decided to disassemble my XD, put the slide in the front passenger floor board, the frame in the rear driver floor board, the ammo in the empty baby seat, and the magazine in the passenger rear floorboard! He said "Hey man, I don't know you well enough to trust you won't shoot me in the back."

Then I decided I wasn't going to tell unless asked. Well, before, when I would do the card showing first, I would get a warning. The last few times that I haven't said anything, I've gotten tickets. Maybe I should start showing my LTCH again?

Maybe you should stop speeding? Lol

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Those are my thoughts as well, removing it from the holster and placing it elsewhere could very easily be interpreted as nefarious by the officer. I wouldn't know if that alone would be PC for a search.

Honestly, I just really don't want somebody not experienced with my weapon trying to unload it and/or handling it. It's one thing if I discharge it myself out of negligence, and entirely other thing if the officer does. Best case, some property is damaged - worst case - somebody dies.

I was speaking with friends who carry today about this very situation and one of them told me about a time they were pulled over for a seatbelt. The officer disarmed him and took the gun back to his cruiser...

The friend sat and waited around 10 minutes for the officer to come back with a warning, an unloaded gun, and missing one round. The officer was nice/polite and complimented my friend on the weapon but apologized for losing a round under his seat that he couldn't get to/find/retrieve...

I have only been pulled over a couple of times in over 10 years of driving, and both times I've had those infractions dismissed as they were baloney... Here's hoping I can avoid being pulled over in the future.

I was disarmed once and the officer tried to rack the slide with the safety on several times. When he FINALLY got the chambered round out it fell on the street and I told/asked him to kindly pick up my round that cost about $1.25.

If they are insistant about disarming you there is not a lot you can do besides asert your rights and make it CLEAR that you are not consenting and that they better have a good reason to back it up in court. EVERY case where an officer unsafely handles your firearm and violates your rights should be reported and taken to court. This is dangerous behavior and needs to STOP.

Its akin to a guy who is not a gear head taking training on an automatic transmission equiped car and then trying to drive your stick shift. People trained on Glocks and Glocks alone just don't know how to properly handle firearms with safeties.

 

[armedindy]

ive heard it on here before...hell someone might have already posted it as i didnt read them all... but....."i think were both safer if our guns stay in their respective holsters"

 

[Titanium_Frost]

ive heard it on here before...hell someone might have already posted it as i didnt read them all... but....."i think were both safer if our guns stay in their respective holsters"

It was a member here who started a thread about it. I can't think of who it was off the top of my head at the moment...

 

[MikeDVB]

Maybe you should stop speeding? Lol

Oh, to be honest, I wasn't speeding or doing anything wrong to be pulled over. I could write a book about both instances - but I got them dismissed in court as they were baloney. Those instances, however, only affected my views of those specific officers and not of law enforcement in general. (i.e. I don't hate or fear the police, nor do I believe they are 'out to get me').

I was disarmed once and the officer tried to rack the slide with the safety on several times. When he FINALLY got the chambered round out it fell on the street and I told/asked him to kindly pick up my round that cost about $1.25.

I'd probably wind up running my mouth and say something along the lines of, "I do not feel you're qualified to handle my firearm and I feel unsafe with you doing so." I'm not sure if asking for a supervisor would help at all, but I'd probably ask them to put the weapon down and have another officer come to the scene... Now me asking them to do something, and them actually doing it would be two entirely different things. They very well could tell me to f*ck off in not so many words, but I would do my best to say what I had to say in an honest manner.

The converse to that is, simply keeping your mouth shut and handling it in court later on (should one decide to pursue it, rather than what everybody currently does which is brush it off).

If they are insistant about disarming you there is not a lot you can do besides asert your rights and make it CLEAR that you are not consenting and that they better have a good reason to back it up in court. EVERY case where an officer unsafely handles your firearm and violates your rights should be reported and taken to court. This is dangerous behavior and needs to STOP.

I agree, but honestly, I don't think it's going to happen until an officer disarms somebody legally carrying for no reason and shoots said person (or themselves). I can say without a doubt if that were to happen (and I lived) most would pursue it.

Its akin to a guy who is not a gear head taking training on an automatic transmission equiped car and then trying to drive your stick shift. People trained on Glocks and Glocks alone just don't know how to properly handle firearms with safeties.

Indeed, and that's one of my biggest fears with this whole thing - somebody not experienced with my weapon and how to handle it - trying to handle it. I'd sooner drop my mag and unchamber the round in the car before they got to my window than let them do it. It's not safe to handle a loaded weapon at all - but better if I do it, than somebody unfamiliar with the weapon.

ive heard it on here before...hell someone might have already posted it as i didnt read them all... but....."i think were both safer if our guns stay in their respective holsters"

I agree with that as well, but if the officer doesn't agree - there isn't a whole lot I can do about it.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I'd sooner drop my mag and unchamber the round in the car before they got to my window than let them do it. It's not safe to handle a loaded weapon at all - but better if I do it, than somebody unfamiliar with the weapon.

Get that thought OUT of your head. DO NOT HANDLE YOUR WEAPON!!! Not before a cop approaches you and certainly not after, even if he tells you to. That is not how they are trained and you are dealing with an incompitant individual if they are requesting that you handle a firearm for them while they are conducting a search. It can lead to NO good.

 

[goinggreyfast]

Get that thought OUT of your head. DO NOT HANDLE YOUR WEAPON!!! Not before a cop approaches you and certainly not after, even if he tells you to. That is not how they are trained and you are dealing with an incompitant individual if they are requesting that you handle a firearm for them while they are conducting a search. It can lead to NO good.

^^^THIS^^^

"There is nothing illegal in this car officer."

"No, I will not relenquish my 4th Amendment right."

"What violation was I pulled over for?"

"Am I being detained?"

"Am I free to leave?"

 

[Titanium_Frost]

^^^THIS^^^

"There is nothing illegal in this car officer."

"No, I will not relenquish my 4th Amendment right."

"What violation was I pulled over for?"

"Am I being detained?"

"Am I free to leave?"

What are you following me around the forum today agreeing with everything I say???

 

[MikeDVB]

Get that thought OUT of your head. DO NOT HANDLE YOUR WEAPON!!! Not before a cop approaches you and certainly not after, even if he tells you to. That is not how they are trained and you are dealing with an incompitant individual if they are requesting that you handle a firearm for them while they are conducting a search. It can lead to NO good.

I am not advocating it or saying it is a good idea. I would see it as the lesser of two evils - but as I said - handling a loaded gun is never a good idea unless you plan on shooting it.

I appreciate the concern, but we are actually on the same page. I do a lot of hypothetical speaking to understand the intricacies of any given situation.

 

[goinggreyfast]

What are you following me around the forum today agreeing with everything I say???

Just being agreeable Bro. I know--it's rare...

What? You paranoid? It's not like you are at the zoo or something. Sheesh!

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I am not advocating it or saying it is a good idea. I would see it as the lesser of two evils - but as I said - handling a loaded gun is never a good idea unless you plan on shooting it.

I appreciate the concern, but we are actually on the same page. I do a lot of hypothetical speaking to understand the intricacies of any given situation.

Noted.

 

[Hayseed_40]

This whole not surrendering your weapon talk is difficult for the French to comprehend...

 

[Bunnykid68]

This whole not surrendering your weapon talk is difficult for the French to comprehend...

Yep, thats why their armpits were sunburned.

 

[Hoosierdood]

This whole not surrendering your weapon talk is difficult for the French to comprehend...

Where's Sylvan when you need him?

 

[Hayseed_40]

Where's Sylvan when you need him?

Watching Jerry Lewis of course.

 

[camcdonnel]

Just a quick question.
Suppose you are pulled over for a supposed traffic violation and you have on your person a concealed weapon and you are properly licensed to do so.
The officer asks you if you have any weapons and you answer truthfully to the affirmative. The officer then asks for you weapon and permit. Does the officer have the legal right to take your weapon? I know that the officer does have the right to inspect my permit, but I have never been keen on the idea of handing my weapon over to anyone unless absolutely necessary.
I would appreciate any comments especially if you can reference Indiana Code to this type of situation.

Any time I have had an issue with a LEO taking my gun, they have alwyas taken out the clip and place both the gun and clip on my trunk and would tell me not to get it until they are gone. This has always been city police in Muncie.