Straw Purchase?

[sloughfoot]

I would like opinions on the following scenarios.

1. Wife buys husband a gun and gives it to him for his birthday a month later. She fills out a 4473 at the FFL. The gun goes into the family gun safe which both spouses have access to. They both go to the range and shoot it from time to time. And sometimes he just shoots it by himself.

Question, who does the gun really belong to? Was a "straw purchase" made?

2. 14 year old daughter loves shooting bullseye pistol, trap, smallbore rifle with her dad. He decides she is ready for a great gun for one of those disciplines, you pick which one.. He buys the gun through an FFL and on her next birthday makes the presentation to her. The gun goes into the family gunsafe that only her parents can access. The gun is taken out for practice and matches which she shoots. Dad says, the gun is yours. When you leave the home after you graduate from HS or whatever, take the gun with you.

Question, since she is prohibited from possessing a firearm because of her age, was it a "straw purchase"? Who does the gun really belong to?

Thanks for your input for these scenarios that happen all the time in families that don't worry about the fine details of the ever tightening federal laws.

Does anybody think the law was actually violated and somebdy might be charged for either of these scenarios?

 

[superjoe76]

I thought immediate family was exempt from straw purchase. Otherwise a lot of guys need to give their guns back to their dads!

 

[Jack Burton]

1) No, it is not a straw purchase. The wife bought the gun. Period. The gift of it to her husband a day later or a year later is immaterial as long as her husband is not a prohibitted person.

ATF Online - Training - Firearms - Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide Learning Theater - Straw Purchase Attempt Transcript

2) Are you sure it is illegal for someone under 14 to legally own a gun.

 

[Sylvain]

In the first scenario I dont think it's a straw purchase, unless the husband is a felon and cannot own a gun.
If she gave it to the husband as a gift then it belongs to the husband.

In the second, not a straw purchase either, you can buy guns for your kids and the parents would be the owner until the kid turns 18 or something like that.

Im not a lawyer but that's how I see things.

 

[Clay]

I would like opinions on the following scenarios.

1. Wife buys husband a gun and gives it to him for his birthday a month later. She fills out a 4473 at the FFL. The gun goes into the family gun safe which both spouses have access to. They both go to the range and shoot it from time to time. And sometimes he just shoots it by himself.

Question, who does the gun really belong to? Was a "straw purchase" made?

who owns it? doesnt matter really, but its the husband's
straw purchase, no.

2. 14 year old daughter loves shooting bullseye pistol, trap, smallbore rifle with her dad. He decides she is ready for a great gun for one of those disciplines, you pick which one.. He buys the gun through an FFL and on her next birthday makes the presentation to her. The gun goes into the family gunsafe that only her parents can access. The gun is taken out for practice and matches which she shoots. Dad says, the gun is yours. When you leave the home after you graduate from HS or whatever, take the gun with you.

Question, since she is prohibited from possessing a firearm because of her age, was it a "straw purchase"? Who does the gun really belong to?

who owns it? the daughter does. Where does it say she cant own it?

straw purchase: no.

Thanks for your input for these scenarios that happen all the time in families that don't worry about the fine details of the ever tightening federal laws.

Does anybody think the law was actually violated and somebdy might be charged for either of these scenarios?

no law violation.

 

[rhino400]

This is only my opinion.
For question one the gun belongs to the husband since it was given as a birthday gift. And it was not a straw purchase unless he is legally not allowed to own a gun.

For question two it seems to me that a parent can give a gun to a child. The child just can't purchase the gun. I could be wrong on that one though.

 

[Panama]

As "I" understand it, anyone can legally purchase a firearm (handgun/rifle/shotgun/black powder) and give it as a gift to anyone that is a "legal and proper person" and that person is the legal owner.

A straw purchase is, knowingly purchasing a firearm for someone who could not legally purchase said firearm.

I am not a lawyer, but this is how I understand the law.

 

[Sylvain]

As "I" understand it, anyone can legally purchase a firearm (handgun/rifle/shotgun/black powder) and give it as a gift to anyone that is a "legal and proper person" and that person is the legal owner.

A straw purchase is, knowingly purchasing a firearm for someone who could not legally purchase said firearm.

I am not a lawyer, but this is how I understand the law.

Not sure about that.

Then it would be a straw purchase to buy a gun for your kid if he's under 18 for a rifle or 21 for a handgun.
Which from what I understand is not the case.
You just have to buy a gun for someone who can legally OWN it, not purchase it, i.e. not a felon.

 

[Sylvain]

I would like to get Kirk's opinion on that matter.

 

[Panama]

I could be wrong, I think I might have been once...........

But if your child is a legal and proper person, they can possess it, just not purchase it.

Maybe,

Kirk will be along shortly

 

[Sylvain]

I could be wrong, I think I might have been once...........

Kirk will be along shortly

How does that feel?
I never been wrong.

 

[greghvac]

ok what about this wife gives husband a gun for b-day then she leaves him is it his ?

 

[Panama]

How does that feel?
I never been wrong.

Slightly unnerving, if I can remember that far back, I mean, it was a while ago.

ok what about this wife gives husband a gun for b-day then she leaves him is it his ?

The "kind" judge will let you both know who gets what.

 

[Sylvain]

We should talk about sand barrels and ADs, that will make Kirk come.

 

[KG1]

We should talk about sand barrels and ADs, that will make Kirk come.

Don't forget "coon fingering"

 

[figley]

Why write out an answer, when I can answer in the form of a cartoon:

Learning Theater 4: Straw Purchase Attempt

 

[figley]

Here's the big boy version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3vfzoyVXWQ&lr=1&feature=mhum

 

[dhisle]

it is my understanding that a straw purchase is made when one deliberately buys a gun for someone who cannot legally purchase the gun. i.e bob has a felony and wants a pistol. mike buys bob his pistol. that would be a straw purchase. the straw purchase does not apply to gifts. it is when you are NOT the actual purchaser of the firearm that makes a straw purchase.

 

[__Doc_]

Why write out an answer, when I can answer in the form of a cartoon:

Learning Theater 4: Straw Purchase Attempt

I love the fact that the ATF does this

 

[jworm1420]

I'm new but il take a shot. first: it doesn't matter if the wife paid for it, its allowable to give said firearm, as long as recipient is able in sound mind. its husbands gun.

second: i have no answer but a question. does it really matter bout said possession, its in her fathers/mothers home, father/mother name tecjnacilly its under father/mthr possession????