Straw purchase

[downzero]

That's not the way I read the law as written.

To what statute are you referring?

Hint, it's probably in 18 U.S.C.

 

[Suprtek]

To what statute are you referring?

Hint, it's probably in 18 U.S.C.

I guess I have to admit to being caught in another poor choice of words. This may not be the actual statute but refer to my post #15 in this thread.

 

[downzero]

I guess I have to admit to being caught in another poor choice of words. This may not be the actual statute but refer to my post #15 in this thread.

Quote doesn't say what you think it says.

The point is that if you buy it in an effort to conceal the "actual purchaser," that act could be criminal, whether or not he could have bought it himself.

If buying a firearm as a gift (and with the intent to gift it) is not a criminal act, then the state surely would have a rough time proving that your proposed facts are/were a crime.

The problem with discussing this is that a lot depends on mental state, which the state will have to prove to get a conviction. It's not like our society convicts people of felonies without a culpable state of mind.

 

[CarmelHP]

Quote doesn't say what you think it says.

The point is that if you buy it in an effort to conceal the "actual purchaser," that act could be criminal, whether or not he could have bought it himself.

If buying a firearm as a gift (and with the intent to gift it) is not a criminal act, then the state surely would have a rough time proving that your proposed facts are/were a crime.

The problem with discussing this is that a lot depends on mental state, which the state will have to prove to get a conviction. It's not like our society convicts people of felonies without a culpable state of mind.

18 USC § 922(a)

(6) for any person in connection with the acquisition or attempted acquisition of any firearm or ammunition from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, knowingly to make any false or fictitious oral or written statement or to furnish or exhibit any false, fictitious, or misrepresented identification, intended or likely to deceive such importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale or other disposition of such firearm or ammunition under the provisions of this chapter;

From ATF website:

Keep in mind that a straw purchase is a purchase in which the actual purchaser uses someone else — a.k.a. the “straw person” — to purchase the firearm and complete the paperwork. Generally, the straw purchaser is used because the actual purchaser is not eligible to conduct a transaction because he or she is a felon or other prohibited person. However, a straw purchase occurs even when the actual purchaser is not a prohibited person. The crime committed is knowingly making a false statement on the Form 4473 indicating that the straw purchaser is the actual purchaser, when this is not the case. Additionally make sure you familiarize yourself and anyone who purchases a firearm as a gift with the rules associated with the ATF I 5300.2 pamphlet.

You do not need to intentionally conceal the true purchaser, just knowingly conceal the true purchaser whether or not they are a prohibited person. A bona fide gift is legal but purchasing in place of someone else is not.

 

[JoshuaW]

he is buying to potentially sell to his freind. Quite a different story than the one you are postulating. If I know a collecter of Colts and I pick a rare one up at a gun show to potentially sell to him that is not a straw purchase. I am buying it for myself.

You may or may not be right about any agreement... but you cannot read it into the story from the OP. It is not there.

I disagree. If you purchase it intending to sell it, you are committing a straw purchase, and potentially conducting a transaction that could be construed as a business move, purchasing a firearm with intent to sell it for a profit. It sounds more like you are trying to carefully word it to suggest otherwise, which to me comes off as an attempt to justify it.

Im surprised the novel idea of covering ones butt hasnt come up. Why not just transfer it at the local FFL? To me that completely eliminates the possibility of the "dont lie for the other guy" scenario.

 

[snowman46919]

I take back everything I said after reading the law on it, it appears even if you are purchasing for a proper person you are still committing a straw purchase which is a complete confusion of commen sense, but it is the atf after all. Also it appears that even though that is how they stand on the issue they never really published their opinion in the federal registers.

 

[kevincullman]

I was at zx guns and that is the law! If you buy it to resale to a friend or anyone, you are breaking the straw law. I was going to do this for one of my friends because he couldn''t make it for thier sale. It's a big no no with the dealers! (THE LAW IS THE LAW!) my

 

[Jack Burton]

I disagree. If you purchase it intending to sell it, you are committing a straw purchase, and potentially conducting a transaction that could be construed as a business move, purchasing a firearm with intent to sell it for a profit. It sounds more like you are trying to carefully word it to suggest otherwise, which to me comes off as an attempt to justify it.

Im surprised the novel idea of covering ones butt hasnt come up. Why not just transfer it at the local FFL? To me that completely eliminates the possibility of the "dont lie for the other guy" scenario.

" If you purchase it intending to sell it, you are committing a straw purchase"

Unfortunately you cannot back that up with a legal cite.

 

[Benny]

This may be a stupid question but it's not the first one I've asked and I'm sure it won't be the last.

Is it still legally considered a "straw purchase" if the person I intend to give the gun to is a "proper person"?

I ask because a friend of mine is interested in getting a handgun and won't be able to attend the 1500. If I find something that would work for him and buy it, then sell it to him the next day for the same price, am I breaking the law?

I know private sales are perfectly legal in Indiana but I've never seen any specific time set for how long you had to own it before you could sell it.

1. There is no such thing as a stupid question.

2. I've always been under the impression that(let's use your situation for instance) if your friend doesn't give you money to buy it, then you are good.

Does it really matter though? If you know your buddy is legal to own one, what's to say you didn't dislike the damn thing and felt like selling it to a buddy for the same price you bought it? Hell, you are getting a good deal since it's "used."

 

[WILSON]

This may be a stupid question but it's not the <sn> a friend of mine is interested in getting a handgun and won't be able to attend the 1500. If I find something that would work for him and buy it, then sell it to him the next day for the same price, am I breaking the law? <sn>

It's not a big deal, but I'd personally try to avoid that situation.
Just in case something were to go terribly awry, it could "look wrong" if charges were ever filed.

I'd probably find something here in the clasifieds, then let my friend buy it FTF/privately.