Stolen Gun and SD

[bartb]

I'm curious on legalities about a couple questions. I most here are not attorneys and can't offer legal advice, but I want other reasonable people thought about these.

Say a gun from a private seller was stolen/used in a crime before it came into your possession, then you used it legitimately in a SD situation. What are the implications?

Those more or less are just side questions to the more important question of: What do you do to ensure the gun is not stolen? Do you go to the local sheriff/PD and have them run the serial knowing it effectively "registers" your new purchase.

 

[dcahsr23]

im subscribing to this to hear what others have to say or know

 

[Stschil]

IANAL so take this with a grain (or pound) of salt.
If you take a firearm to LE to have numbers run and it comes up stolen, youve just lost your gun and your money.
If you have any inkling that it may be a hot gun, don't buy it.
If you are worried about protecting yourself legally, ask to see the ID of the seller and get a signed, dated bill of sale. This should go a long way to proving how you obtained it if the scenario you put forth ever arises.

 

[Concerned Citizen]

Having local LE run the serial # does not "effectively register your new purchase" Police agencies do not keep a database of guns owned by individuals that weren't used in the commision of a crime.

If I were to buy a firearm from an individual, I would ask him in advance of going to buy it what the serial number was, & let him know I would be having it checked with the local PD. If the guy hangs up the phone, you know not to waste your time.

 

[sonofagun]

If you take a firearm to LE to have numbers run and it comes up stolen, youve just lost your gun and your money.

However, the peace of mind in knowing your guns are not on a stolen firearms database is probably worth it.

I just ran three of my guns. Fortunately, they came back clean. I'd like to think though, that if one were a stolen weapon, I'd have the satisfaction of seeing it returned to its rightful owner.

 

[Rookie]

Regarding stolen property, the key word is KNOWINGLY receives stolen property. Granted, an ambitious prosecutor could make life rough until you were able to prove your innocence. If you're that worried, buy a new gun from a gun shop.

 

[LEaSH]

... I'd like to think though, that if one were a stolen weapon, I'd have the satisfaction of seeing it returned to its rightful owner.

Right on brother.

There needs to be more people that think/act like you.

 

[gunman41mag]

If my guns didn't have the serial numbers rubbed off, I would have them checked

 

[eldirector]

Bah... can't find the recent thread that had some comments on this.

Seems that IMPD will absolutely arrest you if you have stolen property in your possession, knowingly or not. You and the DA's office get to figure it out from there.

So, if you use a firearm in self-defense, and it turns out to be a stolen firearm, I would expect to spend some quality time (and money) getting to know our legal system.

 

[bwframe]

Bah... can't find the recent thread that had some comments on this...

This one?
I Had a Discussion With a Friend... - Page 9 - INGunOwners

It just kind of stopped when the discussion turned to getting arrested while doing everything legally required.

 

[gunman41mag]

make sure you have the wife drop you off some KY jelly if you get arrested

 

[eldirector]

This one?
I Had a Discussion With a Friend... - Page 9 - INGunOwners

It just kind of stopped when the discussion turned to getting arrested while doing everything legally required.

Yep. That's the one.

It appears from conversations on here that "knowingly" and "with intent" only applies to the DA and filing charges (and maybe your court case, if it gets that far). Possession seems to be enough for an arrest.

Back to the OP: From what little I can tell, there are three issues:
1) If it is a good shoot on your part, then you cannot be held liable in any way (see IC 35-41-3-2: Indiana Code 35-41-3), at least for all actions involved with defending yourself.

You will still have received stolen property (knowingly, intentional, or otherwise), so:

2) You could be arrested for Conversion (IC 35-43-4-3: Indiana Code 35-43-4), which only requires that you are in possession.
3) Or you could be arrested on that Receiving Stolen Property(see IC 35-43-4-2: Indiana Code 35-43-4). You would have to prove to the DA (prior to filing the charges) that it was not intentional (you didn't know, and took all reasonable steps), or the DA would have to prove that you DID know in court.

In all cases, the likelihood of you getting screwed is pretty high.

 

[bwframe]

I just ran three of my guns. Fortunately, they came back clean...

How did you go about this?

 

[bartb]

This one?
I Had a Discussion With a Friend... - Page 9 - INGunOwners

It just kind of stopped when the discussion turned to getting arrested while doing everything legally required.

I did a search but apparently missed that thread. Thanks, I look forward to reading it more thoroughly.

@eldirector That is more or less what I assumed, it just depends on what the PD/Sheriff/Prosecutor feel like.

@bwframe I assume you could just call the local PD/Sheriff to see if he'll run and what he needs to run it?

@gunman41mag I'm not married, so I guess I'd be screwed. :P

 

[bwframe]

@bwframe I assume you could just call the local PD/Sheriff to see if he'll run and what he needs to run it?

Thanks Bart. I asked so niether of us would have to assume.

To those in the know; Can you call in your serial numbers? Email?
Contact info please...

 

[Dirc]

If my guns didn't have the serial numbers rubbed off, I would have them checked

Don't forget to polish your firing pin to remove the microstamp.

I remember seeing a documentary about firearms forensics where they are able to use ultrasound technology to retrieve obliterated serial numbers. Something about the metal being compressed under the stamp and the denser metal still retaining the numbers...

How did you go about this?

 

[bartb]

Thanks Bart. I asked so niether of us would have to assume.

To those in the know; Can you call in your serial numbers? Email?
Contact info please...

I called the Johnson County Sheriff, a deputy met me out outside. He ran the gun and it was clean. I had a feeling it was, but it is nice to know for sure.

I had a good conversation with the deputy about self defense.

 

[finity]

2) You could be arrested for Conversion (IC 35-43-4-3: Indiana Code 35-43-4), which only requires that you are in possession.

...

In all cases, the likelihood of you getting screwed is pretty high.

Conversion still requires "knowingly or intentionally" as an element of the crime.

The burden of proof is NEVER on you to prove that it wasn't "knowingly or intentional". The burden of proof is ALWAYS on the prosecutor.

 

[bwframe]

I called the Johnson County Sheriff, a deputy met me out outside. He ran the gun and it was clean. I had a feeling it was, but it is nice to know for sure.

I had a good conversation with the deputy about self defense.

Thanks Bart!

Now, I am still asking anyone who might know if there is a way to do this without jumping through those hoops?
Can I please have an e-mail address where I might send serial numbers, possibly pictures, for checking? Maybe state police admin? Yes, I would like to have documentation.

I would love to run the 3,4,5...? guns that I have purchased legally in private sales. It seems as though, even though it is not legally required, one must be sure:

She may very well have been innocent, but she is still in possession of stolen property. It is on that person to make sure it's NOT.

I am not talking about litigation. You may certainly be proven innocent in court. However, being found with stolen property is more than enough to ensure "3 hots and cot."
That whole "I don't know where it comes from" business isn't a defense.

 

[bwframe]

Now, I am still asking anyone who might know if there is a way to do this without jumping through those hoops?
Can I please have an e-mail address where I might send serial numbers, possibly pictures, for checking? Maybe state police admin? Yes, I would like to have documentation.

I would love to run the 3,4,5...? guns that I have purchased legally in private sales. It seems as though, even though it is not legally required, one must be sure...

No way to get this done, eh?