State Certified Active Shooter Training

[JeremiahJohnson]

Took required training today as part of employment at NSWC Crane. Part of that trainging was proper response during an active shooter situation. The two instructors introduced themselves as "state certified active shooter instructors". I'm not sure what that means, but I know they worked for the Monroe County Sheriffs department and now work for the security department at NSWC Crane.

In a nut-shell, the hour-long training boiled down to the essential responses in decending order of use by capability:

1) Evacuate
2) Hide
3) Fight

I thought the training brought out some really good points. Among them was for those leaving the area, especially with LEO entering the area, keep your hands visible and empty. Also, if forced to fight, be forceful, be decisive, have a contingency plan (Flight 93 was used as an example of these tactics).

You should know, NSWC Crane as federal property, employees are not allowed to carry on the property. There is also dangerous weapons instructions that limit the size of any blade to less than 4". So, when #3 was discussed it was all "improvised weapons". No one asked why we couldn't keep weapons in the vehicles because everyone already knows they are prohibited and that's never going to change.

I bring this up because I know the local schools are currently reversing the order of #1 and #2 - Hide first. I wondered if there was a shift state-wide in active shooter responses.

 

[ghostdncr]

The whole concept of "run for your lives" or "hide and wait to die" leaves a very unpleasant taste in my mouth. These so-called active shooters go about their business secure in the fear of their victims. What always seems to happen the instant they encounter an armed response? They turn the gun on themselves.

 

[bingley]

Also, if forced to fight, be forceful, be decisive, have a contingency plan (Flight 93 was used as an example of these tactics).

What does it mean to have a contingency plan? Do you mean in advance (keep a crowbar that I obviously need for my work in my work area), or do you mean what to do if my plan of attack fails (I guess get shot and die?)?

 

[ghostdncr]

A contingency plan? I think a crowbar or broken mop handle against a shooter should be classified as a suicidal last-ditch effort. A contingency plan would be more along the lines of this:

 

[ChalupaCabras]

Well, running for your life may not be possible. Virginia Tech shooter chained up specific doors to keep people in.

Hiding is also not such a great idea - several other shooters have gone around looking in closets and under desks for more pople to kill.

Fighting back whith whatever you have is the only logical option.

 

[HICKMAN]

We've been hoping they'd show up at the school house unannounced and see how all of the NSW guys react, lol.

I'm thinking it won't be pretty

 

[VERT]

Pretty sure I saw the video on this one.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

What does it mean to have a contingency plan? Do you mean in advance (keep a crowbar that I obviously need for my work in my work area), or do you mean what to do if my plan of attack fails (I guess get shot and die?)?

What the instructor was getting at on a contingency plan was, first form a plan of resistance to take out the shooter, then form another one when that one falls apart. Don't wait until your plan to resist falls apart to think through another way.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

I guess what i was trying to find out is...local highschools have been telling the kids to hide first - don't run. I guess the point of that is if everyone is out in the open an active shooter gets what he wants - high body count. If everyone hides seeking first cover, but at a minimum concealment. This training said to flee and get out of the building is the first option.

I'm wondering if that's the case because of the remote location here? Perhaps, since NSWC Crane is so big and so rural, the best chance is to get out and head to the nearby forest which is everywhere. Tough to get a high body count if everyone's in the forest and difficult to find - not trapped in a building. And, because the instructors are "state certified" does that mean the policy for Indiana - State Police - SWAT - changing?

 

[the1kidd03]

The two instructors introduced themselves as "state certified active shooter instructors".

I'd guess that what he is referring to is that he is a certified instructor with the Indiana Law Enforcement Academy for teaching organizations (ie schools) in how to respond to active shooters. A friend of mine is also such an instructor. Their training is commonly referred to as the "Run, Hide, Fight" method. I do not know first hand if they are considering altering the #1 and #2 at this time.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

I'd guess that what he is referring to is that he is a certified instructor with the Indiana Law Enforcement Academy for teaching organizations (ie schools) in how to respond to active shooters. A friend of mine is also such an instructor. Their training is commonly referred to as the "Run, Hide, Fight" method. I do not know first hand if they are considering altering the #1 and #2 at this time.

It would be interesting to know if this has always been their position - to run first - and schools were autonomously ignoring that instruction.

 

[the1kidd03]

It would be interesting to know if this has always been their position - to run first - and schools were autonomously ignoring that instruction.

As far as the history of it goes.. but from everything I've seen/heard, this is the dominant method for teaching places to react.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

Just checked my son's university Emergency Response Plan - Rose-Hulman in Terre Haute - and under "violence", sub-heading "gunshots", they instruct evacuation if possible as the first alternative - same as the instruction we've talked about. However, when my son attended BNL in Bedford, the instruction was hide first or in the vernacular "Shelter In-Place".

 

[VERT]

Seems to me that evacuating a workplace, office, factory, etc is different then a school. Schools would have many students in the classes entering a funnel (doorway or hall) at the same time.

 

[Birds Away]

How do other states certify their active shooters?

 

[Coach]

Lockdown and shelter in place has been the way schools have been advised to respond to active shooters since 1999. It is controversial to evacuate in the school safety world. Evacuation and fighting back is gaining some traction, but it scares the educators for the most part. Schools keep looking at the fact that schools are statistically very safe.

The trainers and experts who write the books and give the lectures to school administrations and school board absolutely advise against arming teachers.

Anything short of armed teachers is a futile attempt to win a gun fight without a gun in an active shooter situation.

 

[cedartop]

.
Anything short of armed teachers is a futile attempt to win a gun fight without a gun in an active shooter situation.

That's golden right there.

 

[rhino]

Anything short of armed teachers is a futile attempt to win a gun fight without a gun in an active shooter situation.

Amen!