So, raising the debt limit does not increase our debt?

[Manatee]

Think of it this way. You get a credit card from the bank and you go out and spend like crazy. The bank sets your credit limit next month for what you've spent this month.

What?!!! you say....why would a bank be so stupid as to not limit me in advance? Answer: the bank isn't that stupid, It is a business. And acts like a business. The government is not a business and doesn't operate that way.

 

[Lex Concord]

I'm sorry, has he vetoed anything? Either way, even if he vetos anything, anyways, it goes back to Congress where it can be voted past his veto. Or are you thinking a pocket veto, which is not a pocket veto, and which bills of this type are exempt from because October 1st is too far out past the 10 day deadline (it'd become law automatically per the Constitution). It all goes back to Congress and even a Presidential veto can't override Congress if they worked together. It's a pretty simple concept.

And no, not rich, I just have studied this. You clearly haven't.

Yep, he can sign it, veto it, or allow it to become law without his signature. Agreed, congress can override a veto. I have been perfectly aware of all these facts since well before you were born. Neither these facts, nor whether Obama has ever vetoed anything, supports that he has no choice or input into the matter, as your previous comments implied.

You may have read the U.S. Constitution, you may even think you understand it (I would disagree, but that is a matter of opinion), but your apparent failure to grasp basic logical constructs leads you astray often. You may want to limit your "debate" to the internet or friendly private circles where only mild disagreement with your take on the world exists; I fear you may not otherwise be able to handle the resulting embarrassment.

 

[Lex Concord]

Think of it this way. You get a credit card from the bank and you go out and spend like crazy. The bank sets your credit limit next month for what you've spent this month.

What?!!! you say....why would a bank be so stupid as to not limit me in advance? Answer: the bank is a business. And acts like a business. The government is not a business and doesn't operate that way.

This is obvious. The question that remains, however, is should any government be able to behave in such a manner?

What is the benefit of spending like drunken sailors year in and year out?

Does anyone really believe this is sustainable in the long term?

Without changes in spending habits, default is a foregone conclusion. The only question is timing.

 

[BogWalker]

Had a very far left lib today tell me how government needs to reign in spending, and then go on a tirade about how awful spending cuts are on the economy.

 

[Manatee]

This is obvious. The question that remains, however, is should any government be able to behave in such a manner?

What is the benefit of spending like drunken sailors year in and year out?

Does anyone really believe this is sustainable in the long term?

Without changes in spending habits, default is a foregone conclusion. The only question is timing.

If it was obvious, you wouldn't have so many gun enthusiasts trying to act like accountants and economists.

 

[Jerchap2]

Sorry but increasing he debt limit does increase the debt. The government has already passed the legislation to spend more than it takes in but cannot do so unless the limit is raised. When Congress raises the limit the debt expands immediately to fill the void.

Debt to the government is more like a gas filling a sealed space. As soon as that space is expanded the debt increases to fill the void.

So our POTUS was being disingenuous with his BS statement. This isn't like a credit card that you or I have. It is our only means to stop the theft from our children but we will fail as all people have done in the past. If given the means to spend to infinity government will always ask for more. Our demise will be the same as many other formerly great nations before us. We will wither in debt and end up lashing out in war then be vanquished.

THIS was the point of the OP.

This is obvious. The question that remains, however, is should any government be able to behave in such a manner?

What is the benefit of spending like drunken sailors year in and year out?

Does anyone really believe this is sustainable in the long term?

Without changes in spending habits, default is a foregone conclusion. The only question is timing.

As was this.

AND THIS: A verified quote from then-Senator Obama in 2006:

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that "the buck stops here." Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

You're amazingly condescending for one with so little attention to detail or ability to clearly articulate his thoughts. Are you rich, or something?

You got to hand it to him. He may not ever be right but he's certainly not in doubt.

 

[ghitch75]

if i raise my debt limit i spend more money.....not to hard to figure out.......so yes we will gain more dept....

 

[Lex Concord]

AND THIS: A verified quote from then-Senator Obama in 2006:

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that "the buck stops here." Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

And this is how we know we have a politician in the White House, and not a leader (not there are many in Congress that are better).

His actions consistently betray his words. Hell, any more, his words betray his words...maybe that's why some get so defensive when the Big O's faults are brought to light...

 

[Lex Concord]

If it was obvious, you wouldn't have so many gun enthusiasts trying to act like accountants and economists.

You may have a point, but the mantle of being a government does not require such behavior. What makes the so-called federal government more apt to behave in this manner than the governments of the several states?

Again, the answer is simple. It holds the keys to print money both literally and figuratively, via the Mint and the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, and figuratively via the Fed.

Not that, as a government, you can't get away with running deficits and debts even without "the presses" available to the feds. State and local governments do it all the time, at their peril. Without those tools at their disposal, however, it would likely have been impossible for fedgov to have amassed such a mammoth debt as a function of GDP.

Eventually, it all ends one way or the other. Currently, fedgov is pushing for the irresponsible end. Most of them favor power over the benefit of their nation, protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.

 

[bwframe]

Dunno what you all are ragging on Streak about? He sounds exactly like his [STRIKE]liars[/STRIKE] leaders...

 

[deal me in]

It's a lot easier just to call it the "Debt Target", instead of Debt Limit. We haven't come up short yet!!

 

[ViperJock]

Not true. The guy makes more sense than all the other posters here combined, you just don't know it because you refuse to see beyond your nose.

Lol. The Troll speaks. Clearly the two of you and all the entitlement dependent voters are more intelligent than The rest of INGO. And you know most of the working people on this country. Nearly every successful producer. Yep your brain power is staggering.

 

[hooky]

In this week’s address, President Obama discussed his meetings with members of Congress of both parties and the ongoing effort to reopen the government and remove the danger of default from our economy. The President urged Congress to pass a budget, put people back to work, and end this shutdown. In his message, the President also called for paying our bills, and preventing an economic shutdown.

Weekly Address: Let?s Get Back to the Work of the American People | The White House

"Now, this debt ceiling -- I just want to remind people in case you haven’t been keeping up -- raising the debt ceiling, which has been done over a hundred times, does not increase our debt; it does not somehow promote profligacy. All it does is it says you got to pay the bills that you’ve already racked up, Congress. It’s a basic function of making sure that the full faith and credit of the United States is preserved."

Remarks by the President at the Business Roundtable | The White House

The president says that we have to raise the debt limit in order to pay the bills that are due. He then says that raising the debt limit won't increase the debt. Please help me understand how these two are mutually exclusive?

If you don't have the cash on hand to meet your obligations, how can you borrow money to meet those obligations without raising your level of indebtedness?

If you provide an answer as to how that's possible, please site your sources and how that meets GAAP requirements for fund accounting. A quote from someone who claims it can be done doesn't cut it.

80.20 - Generally Accepted Accounting Principles

 

[Birds Away]

Did you not read your link? Congress sets the funding, it's in the Constitution...what the President does is send over a REQUEST. It's not law and it doesn't really matter, it's a courtesy that it gets considered. Perhaps you should do a little more research on a basic process of our Federal government. I'd start with reading the Constitution, if I were you.

While technically correct, your argument is completely disingenuous. The President sets the agenda. You act like he is powerless to control the spending, really? I realize you are having fun getting under the skin of the "crazy gun guys" but, really, head on back to Moveon.org. Or, better yet, get a job. It will make you feel better about yourself.

 

[Expat]

If the House tries to use its power of the purse, like they have been doing during the current shut down, they are demonized.

 

[hooky]

Federalist #58 clearly explains the power of the purse.

The Federalist #58

These considerations seem to afford ample security on this subject, and ought alone to satisfy all the doubts and fears which have been indulged with regard to it. Admitting, however, that they should all be insufficient to subdue the unjust policy of the smaller States, or their predominant influence in the councils of the Senate, a constitutional and infallible resource still remains with the larger States, by which they will be able at all times to accomplish their just purposes. The House of Representatives cannot only refuse, but they alone can propose, the supplies requisite for the support of government. They, in a word, hold the purse -- that powerful instrument by which we behold, in the history of the British Constitution, an infant and humble representation of the people gradually enlarging the sphere of its activity and importance, and finally reducing, as far as it seems to have wished, all the overgrown prerogatives of the other branches of the government. This power over the purse may, in fact, be regarded as the most complete and effectual weapon with which any constitution can arm the immediate representatives of the people, for obtaining a redress of every grievance, and for carrying into effect every just and salutary measure.