"Smart Meters" and Big Brother

[cumminspwrd02]

I work for a public utility and work with these smart meters. They can do many things but turning your appliances off an on they don't do. The smart meters are being implemented because it's easier and cheaper for the company to read. The smart meters can have a transmitter in them so instead of your meter reader walking from yard to yard the reader can drive down the street, click a button and get the reads of all the meters with in a certian area. But like every other man made thing they have flaws too, displays going out seem to be the main issue.

 

[shibumiseeker]

I work for a public utility and work with these smart meters. They can do many things but turning your appliances off an on they don't do. The smart meters are being implemented because it's easier and cheaper for the company to read. The smart meters can have a transmitter in them so instead of your meter reader walking from yard to yard the reader can drive down the street, click a button and get the reads of all the meters with in a certian area. But like every other man made thing they have flaws too, displays going out seem to be the main issue.

I didn't say the meters had the capability of turning things on or off, I was addressing the smart grid and giving examples of why industry is pushing to head that direction.

 

[shibumiseeker]

So, you're OK with tyranny so long as it doesn't happen expediently?

That's quite a leap you're making there. You still beating your kid?

In actuality one reason I hate the tinfoil hat crowd is because they are counterproductive. In their shrill rantings trying to convince people of immediate problems, they tend to have the effect of making the average person tend to ignore the very real possibilities of those that happen more slowly. Which in turn makes it easier for "them" to instill the very social controls the tinfoil hat crowd are going on about.

If you carefully read what I've written on this subject, you might note that I've never said I thought it was necessarily a good thing for us the consumer. My cynical side believes the only good thing is for the utilities and that the consumer is being forced to pay for higher profits for utilities. Of course, that doesn't come across with as high a tinfoil factor as "they'll monitor our every flip of the lightswitch."

 

[88GT]

I disagree a little bit.... who runs their blow dryer for longer than 15-20mins?

Me. Or I did back when I had longer hair.

I've not been on the grid out here in the 23 years I have owned the place.

Seriously. You're making some of us (okay, maybe just me) feel woefully inadequate.

 

[tv1217]

You can run ethernet over your home electrical wiring with a special adapter. I could easily see the gov creating a way to monitor the used devices. It would have to be new things because I imagine it would require special electronics in the device power supply.

 

[ocsdor]

That's quite a leap you're making there. You still beating your kid?

In actuality one reason I hate the tinfoil hat crowd is because they are counterproductive. In their shrill rantings trying to convince people of immediate problems, they tend to have the effect of making the average person tend to ignore the very real possibilities of those that happen more slowly. Which in turn makes it easier for "them" to instill the very social controls the tinfoil hat crowd are going on about.

If you carefully read what I've written on this subject, you might note that I've never said I thought it was necessarily a good thing for us the consumer. My cynical side believes the only good thing is for the utilities and that the consumer is being forced to pay for higher profits for utilities. Of course, that doesn't come across with as high a tinfoil factor as "they'll monitor our every flip of the lightswitch."

If you agree that these controls are a bad thing to have, then why do you attack the only people making noise and doing something to stop it?

 

[ATOMonkey]

You can run ethernet over your home electrical wiring with a special adapter. I could easily see the gov creating a way to monitor the used devices. It would have to be new things because I imagine it would require special electronics in the device power supply.

Disco!

The 60 Hz in your AC voltgate typically has a lot of noise. Random frequencies that are a product of normal transmission and power generation.

When I was in school, the EE crowd was working to clean the AC signal and also imbed other frequencies in order to transmit data over the power lines.

You couple that with an appliance that can talk with the utility, and ta-da! They can now control how hot your water heater is, how cold you keep your fridge, how warm or cold you'd like your house to be, etc etc etc.

It HAS to be on the appliance end though. GE is one of the leaders in these new "smart" appliances.

 

[shibumiseeker]

If you agree that these controls are a bad thing to have, then why do you attack the only people making noise and doing something to stop it?

"In actuality one reason I hate the tinfoil hat crowd is because they are counterproductive. In their shrill rantings trying to convince people of immediate problems, they tend to have the effect of making the average person tend to ignore the very real possibilities of those that happen more slowly. Which in turn makes it easier for "them" to instill the very social controls the tinfoil hat crowd are going on about."

I don't agree they are a bad thing to have. For the utility they are a great thing. For the consumer they aren't so great because ultimately the consumer pays for it and the utilities make even more profit. I have no position as to whether this is good or bad because I choose to not be a part of it.

I attack the tinfoil hat crowd for the reason I wrote above.
They're not the only people doing anything against it, just the most emotional driven trying to play on fear and hysteria. I have a special contempt for people who try to play on fear and hysteria instead of reasoned argument.

"I don't support this because "they" are going to use this to control me!"

vs.

"I don't support this because in spite of the pros of implementation of this technology, the cons outweigh them from my perspective as a consumer."

 

[IndySSD]

Seriously. You're making some of us (okay, maybe just me) feel woefully inadequate.

It's not just you.....

"In actuality one reason I hate the tinfoil hat crowd is because they are counterproductive. In their shrill rantings trying to convince people of immediate problems, they tend to have the effect of making the average person tend to ignore the very real possibilities of those that happen more slowly. Which in turn makes it easier for "them" to instill the very social controls the tinfoil hat crowd are going on about."

I don't agree they are a bad thing to have. For the utility they are a great thing. For the consumer they aren't so great because ultimately the consumer pays for it and the utilities make even more profit. I have no position as to whether this is good or bad because I choose to not be a part of it.

I attack the tinfoil hat crowd for the reason I wrote above.
They're not the only people doing anything against it, just the most emotional driven trying to play on fear and hysteria. I have a special contempt for people who try to play on fear and hysteria instead of reasoned argument.

"I don't support this because "they" are going to use this to control me!"

vs.

"I don't support this because in spite of the pros of implementation of this technology, the cons outweigh them from my perspective as a consumer."

Hmm.... I can understand your point but I have to say, because you have no dog in the fight you really aren't looking at the discussion objectively.

That fact makes your statement about "I don't support this because of control issues vs. consumer options" completely biased as you are not within this consumer base.


I personally agree with both of your VS. statements but I would say that there's no need to "hate" those who bring up topics that are detrimental to liberty.

 

[shibumiseeker]

I personally agree with both of your VS. statements but I would say that there's no need to "hate" those who bring up topics that are detrimental to liberty.

It's not just a contempt for those folks on this particular topic, it's a contempt for that way of thinking and it transcends this particular topic. You're right, I have no dog in this fight as a consumer of this particular service, which would tend to make me less biased, not more.

But I readily admit a bias. I am for the individual over the large corporate and governmental interests and I have a deep distrust of the latter, and in that sense I am on the same side as the tinfoil hat crowd.

It's like when I've been in public meetings and have been making headway in getting some public official(s) to actually understand my position, then some guy in the audience steps up and yells that "they" are just trying to control everyone and spends the next few minutes in a rant that is difficult to follow. I completely lose the headway I was making and get lumped into the same category as the table thumping ranter.

It's much easier to dismiss someone as simply paranoid when they are making dramatic emotional appeals and basing their arguments on that.

As a complete aside, I have real and actual experience with someone with a tinfoil hat when I was working as an EMT in Indy. We were working one of the doctors who had had a heart attack at Central State Hospital (used to be the state psych hospital) and I had a guy wearing said hat who kept getting in my way while I was working the patient claiming that "they" had gotten to her (the doctor). I finally got him to back off when I pulled my pen out of my pocket, pointed it at him and said "and your name is?"* His eyes got really big and he backed away and turned and ran. This was the late 80s. Before that I'd never heard of foil hats and why they were used, so I later asked one of the pysch techs what was up with that.


*Under normal circumstances I would never screw with someone who had a diagnosed mental illness like that, but I was trying to save my patient's life and was rather busy at the moment.

 

[IndySSD]

It's not just a contempt for those folks on this particular topic, it's a contempt for that way of thinking and it transcends this particular topic. You're right, I have no dog in this fight as a consumer of this particular service, which would tend to make me less biased, not more.

But I readily admit a bias. I am for the individual over the large corporate and governmental interests and I have a deep distrust of the latter, and in that sense I am on the same side as the tinfoil hat crowd.

It's like when I've been in public meetings and have been making headway in getting some public official(s) to actually understand my position, then some guy in the audience steps up and yells that "they" are just trying to control everyone and spends the next few minutes in a rant that is difficult to follow. I completely lose the headway I was making and get lumped into the same category as the table thumping ranter.

It's much easier to dismiss someone as simply paranoid when they are making dramatic emotional appeals and basing their arguments on that.

As a complete aside, I have real and actual experience with someone with a tinfoil hat when I was working as an EMT in Indy. We were working one of the doctors who had had a heart attack at Central State Hospital (used to be the state psych hospital) and I had a guy wearing said hat who kept getting in my way while I was working the patient claiming that "they" had gotten to her (the doctor). I finally got him to back off when I pulled my pen out of my pocket, pointed it at him and said "and your name is?"* His eyes got really big and he backed away and turned and ran. This was the late 80s. Before that I'd never heard of foil hats and why they were used, so I later asked one of the pysch techs what was up with that.


*Under normal circumstances I would never screw with someone who had a diagnosed mental illness like that, but I was trying to save my patient's life and was rather busy at the moment.

I guess I don't truly understand the level of "tinfoil hat" that you've come in contact with. Sounds to me like some people are just mentally not all there.

So then are you saying that tinfoil hatters are like conspiracy theorists without facts/evidence/probable cause?


Oh and I'd agree that someone standing up and shouting at a public meeting is almost 100% of the time detrimental to any logical opposition to a motion. That would **** me off too..

 

[ATOMonkey]

People who dramatize situations rarely win the majority of the people to their side, especially when they begin to espouse theories that run counter to what appears on its face to be common sense.

In order for people to get on the "government is sinister" train, you first need to make a very good case that the government is sinister and not just inept.

You also need to go after the right boogey man.

Smart meters are not the right target. Smart appliances are.

 

[marshallartist]

Yes. Eventually the feds could mandate smart appliances and some larger energy consuming appliances will probably be the first to do so, but it's not here yet.

The tinfoil hat crowd as typical are making it sound like this is going to be forced on you tomorrow when in reality it'll slowly be implented over the next few decades. And like any such technology, it could be used to control the populace, but like with most conspiracies, the average individual's importance to the State is vastly overblown.

Not to worry the aliens who are controlling our leaders minds will have invaded and destroyed civilization by then and we will all be living underground.

 

[shibumiseeker]

we will all be living underground.

You say this like it is a bad thing.