"Smart Meters" and Big Brother

[miguel]

I've been hearing about smart meters and how "they" (the Man, Big Brother, etc.) are going to know when I watch TV, run my microwave turn on a Wii after one has been installed for my home.

My question is, how does the smart meter know the difference between a lamp and a radio or a TV and a dishwasher? Wouldn't smart meters require smart appliances?

Also, doesn't anyone know if these are being rolled out in Indiana?

 

[shibumiseeker]

My question is, how does the smart meter know the difference between a lamp and a radio or a TV and a dishwasher? Wouldn't smart meters require smart appliances?

Yes. Eventually the feds could mandate smart appliances and some larger energy consuming appliances will probably be the first to do so, but it's not here yet.

The tinfoil hat crowd as typical are making it sound like this is going to be forced on you tomorrow when in reality it'll slowly be implented over the next few decades. And like any such technology, it could be used to control the populace, but like with most conspiracies, the average individual's importance to the State is vastly overblown.

 

[redneckmedic]

I'm guessing by the amount of surge drawn and consistency. Not to mention if it is hooked up to your breaker it will be obvious. Think of your electricity as a river, if there is any change in the depth or speed of the water out side of it regular flow, it will give a pretty good idea the appliance by those variables as well as how long its change from baseline is.

Just a guess, HTH
RNM

 

[miguel]

Thanks for the update.

I love a conspiracy as well as the next guy, but only have room for so many in my portfolio! That said, I'll start collecting vintage, dumb appliances just in case.

 

[Hammer]

Yes, smart meters are in Indiana now.

They cannot tell the difference between a grow light for your marijuana or a blow drier.

They can tell the current draw though to get time of use rates. No tech I know of as of now will be able to tell the difference in what is running, just current draw.

 

[redneckmedic]

They cannot tell the difference between a grow light for your marijuana or a blow drier.

I disagree a little bit.... who runs their blow dryer for longer than 15-20mins?

But they can't tell the difference between your blow dryer and your blender

 

[4sarge]

My REMC is requiring Metered Controls on Heat, AC & Hot Water. They Control when you can have any of the above and often during peak times shut them off for periods of time. I Heat with wood and refused the AC Control for now. All the above if your appliances are electric

 

[shibumiseeker]

Thanks for the update.

I love a conspiracy as well as the next guy, but only have room for so many in my portfolio! That said, I'll start collecting vintage, dumb appliances just in case.

The rationale for this if far less sinister (though like any tech it can be used for evil), it allows the utility to better manage the loads by allowing the system to shut off nonessential heavy loads (like a fridge or washer/dryer or A/C unit) for periods of time to better manage peak usage time. So if say they can turn off your freezer for two hours in the middle of the day when the A/C load is highest, they don't have to have as much peak generating capacity using more expensive generation sources.

In the case of supply issues, it can be used to turn off nonessential items in an area but still allow things like lighting and medical equipment to be used, so instead of a rolling blackout, everyone can have some power, just not as much as normal.

In the case of the conspiracy theorists, they have it sorta wrong. It's not so much to control the populace as it is to allow the utilities to save money, and we the consumer gets to pay for it via government mandate.

 

[4sarge]

My REMC is requiring Metered Controls on Heat, AC & Hot Water. They Control when you can have any of the above and often during peak times shut them off for periods of time. I Heat with wood and refused the AC Control for now. All the above if your appliances are electric

They also adopted the Cass Sunstein philosophy of Control by Nudging the subscribers with doubling the KW hour during AC season and 1 1/2 times per KW for Heating Season.

Cass Sunstein is the most dangerous man in America. He's Obama's regulatory "czar." He is the author of the book "Nudge." "Nudge" is basically a book that looks at Americans as a bunch of lab rats. And he knows all the tricks and all the levers to make them behave the way he wants them to. Just a little nudge here and little nudge there.

People still have a choice. Of course, they do. But they really don't. Here is an example. Do you remember when Sunstein tried to get all Americans to get out of their SUVs and stop doing that? Please, get rid of it. Go get a smaller one, an economical car.

Oh, yes — you're right. He never said that. Instead, we did "cash for clunkers." Just little cheese dangled in front of the cage. We started flocking, sending our SUVs to the scrap yard.

Now to make the Tea Parties look racist and radical, several sites are now popping up to actually advocate the infiltration of the Tea Parties, pretend to be one of them. Bring racist signs to the rallies. Only a crazy loser whack-job will even think about doing this, but there are plenty of them out there. Crazy loser whack-jobs and Cass Sunstein.
Glenn Greenwald from Salon.com uncovered a paper Sunstein wrote way back in 2008, proposing, you know, hypothetically speaking, how to handle opposition groups. Now, keep in mind, Cass calls anything "anti- government" a conspiracy theory.

He proposed that:
one, the government ban conspiracy theories. Ban them. Make them illegal.
Number two, the government might impose some sort of tax on those who engage in conspiracy theories.
Number three — love this one — government might itself engage in counter-speech, OK? Marshalling arguments to, quote, "discredit conspiracy theories and theorists."
Four: Hire private parties. They might formally hire private parties to engage in counter-speech.
Number five: The government might engage in informal communication with such parties, encouraging them to help. So in other words, this — wait a minute, that kind of sounds like a conspiracy.

Quote: "Our main policy claim here is the government should engage in cognitive infiltration of the groups that produce conspiracy theories," end quote.

Of course, there is no evidence that Sunstein is behind any of the recent attempts to discredit and infiltrate the Tea Parties, which is weird because those are the same words that he used. But there is no evidence of that at all. That would be a conspiracy theory.

Sunstein will claim that he is acting with the best intentions, trying to dispel falsehoods and spread the truth. You're just spreading, you know, lies, right? I think he is spreading the truth using lies.

This is nothing short of propaganda. For the regular audience, the last administration to do this, the last one to recruit goons on soap boxes and just start grabbing a bullhorn and preaching the government's good news.

He created the Committee on Public Information. He eventually had tens of thousands of "four-minute men" who gave four-minute propaganda speeches designed to gain public support for the war. They were specifically screened based on their credibility in the community

 

[miguel]

The rationale for this if far less sinister (though like any tech it can be used for evil), it allows the utility to better manage the loads by allowing the system to shut off nonessential heavy loads (like a fridge or washer/dryer or A/C unit) for periods of time to better manage peak usage time. So if say they can turn off your freezer for two hours in the middle of the day when the A/C load is highest, they don't have to have as much peak generating capacity using more expensive generation sources.

In the case of supply issues, it can be used to turn off nonessential items in an area but still allow things like lighting and medical equipment to be used, so instead of a rolling blackout, everyone can have some power, just not as much as normal.

So, post-implementation of smart appliances, the utility could determine what is "essential" for me to use if their infrastructure couldn't support my decision as a consumer to do laundry and bake cookies at Noon on a 100 degree day, even if I'm willing to pay a higher cost to do so?

 

[shibumiseeker]

So, post-implementation of smart appliances, the utility could determine what is "essential" for me to use if their infrastructure couldn't support my decision as a consumer to do laundry and bake cookies at Noon on a 100 degree day, even if I'm willing to pay a higher cost to do so?

Potentially yes, but more likely you'll just pay 10x the base rate to do so. Either way it's a win for the utility. They'd rather charge you a lot more than have you use less. If it costs them 2x the base wholesale rate to generate peak power and they can charge you 10x, they make more money than if you just help them avoid the 2x peak charge.


It's a win win situation for the utility.

 

[MrSmitty]

I'm going to join Les Stroud and go off the grid!!

 

[shibumiseeker]

I'm going to join Les Stroud and go off the grid!!

Who is Les Stroud?

I've not been on the grid out here in the 23 years I have owned the place.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Potentially yes, but more likely you'll just pay 10x the base rate to do so. Either way it's a win for the utility. They'd rather charge you a lot more than have you use less. If it costs them 2x the base wholesale rate to generate peak power and they can charge you 10x, they make more money than if you just help them avoid the 2x peak charge.


It's a win win situation for the utility.

When we get to that point, alternative energy sources will finally start to make sense, on an individual "wholesale numbers" level, where such things are possible.

 

[Lucas156]

It's a win win situation for the utility.

How about a different idea than this. What if the utility is not in it for the profit? What if they are run by a non-profit organization?

 

[shibumiseeker]

How about a different idea than this. What if the utility is not in it for the profit? What if they are run by a non-profit organization?

Doesn't matter when the feds are trying to mandate it for everyone. Rural coops are by far the minority of power producers in this country, and part of their infrastructure and costs are subsidized, and the NRECA (who represents most if not all rural coops) appears on board since they are getting a lot of grants for the project.

 

[Leadeye]

Rate increases are coming, cap and trade, green tax or both. The meters will just control what you can use.

 

[RockofStrength]

When the give it to you, they have the ability to make sure you don't get it if it doesn't suit their convenience. Hardly a conspiracy: it's plain as the noonday sun. Could it be used for control? Of course. In reality it's more the green agenda crap coupled with the energy limitations Congress and the Presidents of late have seen fit to implement.

 

[ocsdor]

...The tinfoil hat crowd as typical are making it sound like this is going to be forced on you tomorrow when in reality it'll slowly be implented over the next few decades. And like any such technology, it could be used to control the populace, but like with most conspiracies, the average individual's importance to the State is vastly overblown.

So, you're OK with tyranny so long as it doesn't happen expediently?

 

[ocsdor]

I bet Al Gore's mansion won't have its air conditioning shut off.