Should I buy an M16 in 9mm or 5.56

[alfahornet]

I am interested in getting into the class 3 business and buying an M16, probably a conversion as the factory guns are out of my price range.

I am currently looking at 2 converted AR15. Price is the same for both guns.

One is a Colt AR-15 A2 converted in plus 95% condition

Second is a converted Colt 6450 in also 95% condition in 9mm

I was looking for a 5.56 M16 but now this 9mm 6450 sounds very intriguing. And since the fire control parts are the same for all M16, all I'd need to do is switch the upper and remove the magwell which doesn't sound so difficult to have a 5.56.

I appreciate any opinions, suggestions and recommendations. This would be my first class 3 gun. I am familiar with the basics of the paperwork. Thanks.

 

[redneckmedic]

I think you would be best off trying to buy a AR15, as the M16 is what the government employees use and is not for sale. However you can buy an olympic arms lower and a 9mm upper. This uses glock mags. Good luck finding them though I have been on a look out for this set up for months.

 

[shooter521]

I am interested in getting into the class 3 business and buying an M16, probably a conversion as the factory guns are out of my price range.

I am currently looking at 2 converted AR15. Price is the same for both guns.

One is a Colt AR-15 A2 converted in plus 95% condition

Second is a converted Colt 6450 in also 95% condition in 9mm

Buy the AR-15 A2 and get a drop-in 9mm conversion kit for it later if you want to. Or better yet, a .22LR conversion.

The 6450 was built as a dedicated 9mm carbine, and as such, the magwell adapter was usually pinned in. To remove or reinstall it, you'd have to pound the pins out (or in) - not something I'd want to do to my $10,000+ machine gun with any regularity. The 9mm bolt catch assembly is also different, and may or may not work with the 5.56 bolt.

Finally, having shot M-16s in 3 different calibers (.22, 9mm, 5.56), I gotta say that the 9mm is dandy in a semi-auto carbine but is not much fun to shoot in full-auto. It's got a surprising amount of kick and it's not smooth at all, due to the heavy bolt and buffer slamming around. I'd take an MP5 or even my slowfire M-11/9 over a 9mm M-16 any day of the week. Now, .22LR and 5.56, OTOH... freakin' sweet.

My

I think you would be best off trying to buy a AR15, as the M16 is what the government employees use and is not for sale.

There are transferable factory M-16s available; you just have to be willing to pay the premium. The guns the OP is looking at are legally converted AR-15s, as clearly stated in his post.

 

[alfahornet]

Buy the AR-15 A2 and get a drop-in 9mm conversion kit for it later if you want to. Or better yet, a .22LR conversion.

The 6450 was built as a dedicated 9mm carbine, and as such, the magwell adapter was usually pinned in. To remove or reinstall it, you'd have to pound the pins out (or in) - not something I'd want to my $10,000+ machine gun with any regularity. The 9mm bolt catch assembly is also different, and may or may not work with the 5.56 bolt.

Finally, having shot M-16s in 3 different calibers (.22, 9mm, 5.56), I gotta say that the 9mm is dandy in a semi-auto carbine but is not much fun to shoot in full-auto. It's got a surprising amount of kick and it's not smooth at all, due to the heavy bolt and buffer slamming around. I'd take an MP5 or even my slowfire M-11/9 over a 9mm M-16 any day of the week. Now, .22LR and 5.56, OTOH... freakin' sweet.

My

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Shooter521 Thank you very, very helpful. So, you'd go with the Colt A2.

The Colt A2 would come from a reputable class 3 dealer, he's asking 10500 for it. Any comments in regards to price are also appreciated. Thanks.

Just for general reference: I am familiar with the difference between an Ar15 and M16.

 

[shooter521]

The Colt A2 would come from a reputable class 3 dealer, he's asking 10500 for it. Any comments in regards to price are also appreciated.

Who's the dealer, and who did the actual conversion? Get lots of pics of the gun in question and do your homework before sending funds, but unless it's a complete monkey-****, I say jump on it.

 

[jtmarine1911]

There are transferable factory M-16s available; you just have to be willing to pay the premium. The guns the OP is looking at are legally converted AR-15s, as clearly stated in his post.

Not to , but I am curious. Not having any Class 3 experince what does it take to "legally" convert an AR-15 to select fire or is that conversion made my the manufacturer prior to the firearms first transfer? I mean I am aware there is paper work, backgroud checks, tax stamps, etc. for any class 3 item but what are your options if you wanted to build one from the ground up, or does the lower have to be purchased as a built class 3 item.

Sorry for the Noob question.

 

[shooter521]

Not having any Class 3 experince what does it take to "legally" convert an AR-15 to select fire or is that conversion made my the manufacturer prior to the firearms first transfer?

As of May 1986, new machine guns can only be built (including conversions) by licensed manufacturers. Generally, such weapons can only be transferred to a Class 3 dealer as a sales sample, or to a gov't agency. There is no provision for the average person to legally manufacture a machine gun, which is the entire reason why prices for transferables are on the moon.

 

[alfahornet]

Clyde armory in Georgia is the dealer. Manufacturer as Hard Times Armory in Smyrna, Georgia. I don't know either personally but couldn't find bad posts/reviews on either when I searched the web.

 

[VUPDblue]

$10.5k is about right for that gun. HTA guns are not particularly rare, nor are they particularly prolific, but they are a good conversion. If his price is firm, it's a decent buy. If he's open to offers, I'd say $10k and he pays both stamps would be a smokin' deal, YMMV. I agree with Shooter521 on the calibers. I shoot mine exclusively in .22, and occasionally in 5.56. I've only ever run my 9 conversion twice...

 

[buckfever34]

I would definitely pick up the .223 setup.

I assume the gun is on a F3 since Clyde Armory is selling it.....I would offer them $10K shipped on it and see where it goes. There are a lot of good deals floating around out there right now, and dealers know this.

The HTA conversions on the AR-15 family of weapons always seemed to be decently done. With the Ruger Mini-14, I have heard of some complaints in the past but I think the ARs are G2G.

 

[alfahornet]

Thank you very much all for responding. I will go with a 223 gun following this great advice.

I have yet to receive the pics I requested from Clyde armory showing the inside of the lower. Once I get those I will try to get them to lower the price if I decide to go with that gun.

I also came across a factory M16 that is reasonably low priced and supposed to be in very good condition. I am talking to the owner (private individual) Monday, if condition and price are right that may become it.

 

[alfahornet]

So, I am getting into the class 3 business now. Just paid the deposit on a factory Colt M16A1. The gun appears in near perfect condition, scratches on the upper but the lower looks likes new. Can't wait to fill out the form 4 and hopefully in a couple months own it.

 

[shooter521]

Just paid the deposit on a factory Colt M16A1.

So was this one of the other guns that Clyde's had for sale, or did you end up going elsewhere?

 

[alfahornet]

Clyde's Armory never sent me the pics I requested of the converted A2. Their factory guns were by their own admission in only 80-85% condition (trade ins) for the lower priced ones. The nicer ones are outside my price range. I want a gun I can shoot but I also want a gun in very good to excellent condition.

The guy I am buying it from is a dealer (not private individual as I previously believed), he sent me tons of pics, answered all my questions and was willing to lower the price to an amount I can live with. Price is 14K even for a gun in supposedly near perfect condition. One larger scratch on upper, a couple minor ones. Lower, doesn't appear to have any marks or scratches. Gun comes with original manual and cleaning kit as well as a couple new mags. The dealer was only owner, bought it new. It has been fired but the round count is supposed to be very low. Will see, when my SOT gets it.

Payment option helped in closing deal: Dealer suggested I put 10% down, full amount upon transfer and if there is a problem with paperwork (which I don;t expect), he will take it back minus 250 inconvenience fee. The dealer to dealer paperwork got filed yesterday, so I can't wait driving over to my SOT to see it in a few weeks.

Will keep posted and post pics once I got it.

 

[jmiller676]

Tagged for pics!
When you finally get to shoot it get some action pictures and video for us please.

 

[rfguy1984]

I am sure that your transfer will go smooth. Most dealers are staright forward. No one wants to get hammered over the internet for doing bad business.

 

[buckfever34]

Congrats on the purchase! I can't wait to see the range report and pics!