Shots fired at 1500

[target64]

You're supposed to unload it the same place everyone else does. And no, I don't think you're the only one, it is obvious you are not as evidenced by some idiot putting a bullet through his hand and nearly bringing harm to those around him. This is my point, if you're willing to disregard a rule, what rule aren't you willing to ignore? At what point do you, to make a sale, pull out your loaded gun and start showing it off to a customer?

Essentially, you are breaking my trust. I trust that vendors have agreed to terms of conduct to attend the show, you are not keeping up your end of the bargain and thus, I don't trust you.

If you have issues as to your safety and the security of your merchandise, it is a very simple thing. Don't come to the show. But don't justify yourself by saying you have some reason to have more leeway since you're a vendor and your well being or valuables are at greater risk than Joe Average's attending the show.

What about the patrons.......should they obey the rules or just pick the one's that suit them????
This is from one of your own posts....
RE: the magazine emptying, I've never been asked, but I've never removed the mag in front of them either. It's fairly useless to have you empty the mag that came in it, but not your extras, but then they're probably just following the rules that were laid out for them and don't really give a damn.
So do you empty your mags? Just asking....

 

[foszoe]

Hmm

First gun show I have went to, first gun show I take my wife to but I have been a gun owner for over 25 years. Saw nothing that I would call a great deal on items either of us would be interested in and risk getting shot by what we first thought was one person deciding to break a rule we abided by and assumed all others did.

I carry because I expect others to break rules, she has decided to carry for the same reasons. That said spending 23$ to see nothing that saves me more than 10$ over what I could support my local gun store simply isn't a good trade and it certainly ain't worth getting shot over. Now that I know other folks have decided deliberately to carry loaded weapons when they pull their vehicle up to the vendors exit to load up equipment for fear of getting accosted in their 10 yard walk and risk my safety and that of my wifes for 2-4 hours while we patronize their booths well thats just too much.

I think I have also taken my wife and myself to our last gun show.

 

[sj kahr k40]

You're supposed to unload it the same place everyone else does. And no, I don't think you're the only one, it is obvious you are not as evidenced by some idiot putting a bullet through his hand and nearly bringing harm to those around him. This is my point, if you're willing to disregard a rule, what rule aren't you willing to ignore? At what point do you, to make a sale, pull out your loaded gun and start showing it off to a customer?

Essentially, you are breaking my trust. I trust that vendors have agreed to terms of conduct to attend the show, you are not keeping up your end of the bargain and thus, I don't trust you.

If you have issues as to your safety and the security of your merchandise, it is a very
simple thing. Don't come to the show. But don't justify yourself by saying you have some reason to have more leeway since you're a vendor and
your well being or valuables are at greater risk than Joe Average's attending the show.

I carry a loaded weapon whether I'm a vendor or a customer, exactly where is the safe place to unload, did I miss the sand barrels at the entrance? My well being is more
important to me then some silly rules that some won't follow.

As to when do I pull my gun out, when I need to use it! Never to show it off or try to sell it, not to unload it in a parking lot with hundreds of other people, what's your backstop when you unload in a parking lot?

 

[sj kahr k40]

And what's your back stop? You trust that your shot would hit only him and not go beyond? What if you miss?

Am I the only one uncomfortable with the circumstance put forth above?

He's my backstop, really if I'm alive I don't care about the backstop, my life is more important to me then your life, I'll deal with the repercussions of my decisions if I have too, if I'm dead I can't be of any help to anyone, worst case scenario I can be used as a bad example if I'm alive

 

[jsharmon7]

This argument has a lot of parallels to the anti-gun argument. "Ban guns so there are no shootings." It doesn't work in real life and I don't expect it to work at a gun show. People will be idiots regardless of the rules. I just think that if you agree to abide by the rules as a condition of being a vendor then you should abide by them. I agreed not to be armed as a condition of being a customer. Patrons walking in from across 38th St. are in as much/more danger carrying their cash and guns as the vendors. Abide by the rules you agree to when you sign up, or don't come.

 

[Suprtek]

How many threads/posts have been made on this forum about disregarding "no firearms" or "no loaded firearms" signs on the basis that they hold no weight of law and the fact that many do not wish to comply with those that wish do disarm us?

How many times have many of us said that we do not wish to patronize a business due to an anti-firearms policy?

As for me, I've gone to many gun shows, and I comply with their policy for the simple reason of avoiding the hassle. I have never been a vendor. I must admit to taking the side of 2A rights when discussing the topics I mentioned above. I'm not sure if this makes me a hypocrite or not.

I would suggest that the policies in place at the 1500 have far more to do with the possibility of liability than they do with concern about safety.

I still stand by what I posted earlier in this thread though. Which is the fact that I still feel much safer walking around a gun show with thousands of guns and millions of rounds and hundreds of people than I would walking down 38th street alone.

 

[thompal]

Does it really matter, he didn't follow the rule I always follow, don't touch your weapon in a crowd unless it's life or death, had he followed my much safer rule this wouldn't have happened.

If he had followed ANY rules, that wouldn't have happened.

Any of:

No vender firearms

No loaded firearms.

Always check and double check your firearm before fiddling with it.

Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot.

Unload your weapon before disassembly.

Don't be an idiot.

 

[thompal]

How about you just leave it in your car then?

NEVER DO THIS!!!!

If you leave a firearm in a car in that area, you are simply arming a thug, and you should be considered morally responsible for whoever gets shot during the resulting drive-by or gang retaliation.

In fact, if you leave a firearm in your car anywhere within 465, you are potentially arming a thug. Why not save everyone some trouble and just walk up to a deserving urban youth and hand it to him?

I work downtown, AND I sometimes attend the 1500. I consider that the odds of me being shot by a vender at the 1500 to be minuscule compared to the odds of being shot by some thug with an IQ of 65 downtown who got a handgun that someone stole out of a car somewhere.

Don't arm the thugs!! If you're going to carry a handgun, then carry the damn thing.

 

[confused89]

This is slightly funny to me because while I was walking though the 1500 before all of this happened I heard a guy tell a cop that there isn't a need to carry a loaded weapon there. The cop made some comment to the effect of that the people who carry are comandos. I just laughed and kept on walking. Just goes to show you what I know.

 

[thompal]

Hmm

First gun show I have went to, first gun show I take my wife to but I have been a gun owner for over 25 years. Saw nothing that I would call a great deal on items either of us would be interested in and risk getting shot by what we first thought was one person deciding to break a rule we abided by and assumed all others did.

I carry because I expect others to break rules, she has decided to carry for the same reasons. That said spending 23$ to see nothing that saves me more than 10$ over what I could support my local gun store simply isn't a good trade and it certainly ain't worth getting shot over. Now that I know other folks have decided deliberately to carry loaded weapons when they pull their vehicle up to the vendors exit to load up equipment for fear of getting accosted in their 10 yard walk and risk my safety and that of my wifes for 2-4 hours while we patronize their booths well thats just too much.

I think I have also taken my wife and myself to our last gun show.

The 1500, and the other gun show on Holt Rd. USED to be good places to pick up deals on just about everything. Then some local stores opened that had generally good prices and service, and prices at the gun shows went way up. Ammo is actually cheaper at someplace like Bradis than you can find at the 1500.

The biggest reasons to go to a gun show, in my opinion are that, if you are considering several firearms for a potential purchase bu want to see and handle them, you can usually find them at the gun show so you can compare them easily. Also, some hard-to-find ammo is usually available.

But the biggest reason is parts and accessories. You can usually find small parts and accessories that don't make sense to mail order, and aren't carried by local stores. You won't save any money, but you can get it.

Only you can decide if it's worth paying for parking, paying to get in, and having to go into that neighborhood.

 

[foszoe]

I still stand by what I posted earlier in this thread though. Which is the fact that I still feel much safer walking around a gun show with thousands of guns and millions of rounds and hundreds of people than I would walking down 38th street alone.

Suprtek,

I agree with the sentiment BUT (isn't there always one of those ) When at the gun show, I observed plenty of LEOs walking around which i expected. One reason I justify carrying is that they can't be everywhere, ie walking down 38th street with me at all times but when there are dozens of them in the same room at some point I do trust my care to the professionals. In the 38th street alone scenarios, I would at least have a loaded gun. Although I don't live on 38th street, i have spent more time there than I have at the gun show and in my limited experience, I have heard more gunfire at one gunshow than at any time spent on 38th street. So for now, perhaps because the memory is fresh, I can't agree with your conclusion. Maybe one day I will but when that shot was fired I remember turning quickly to look at my wife and how I just paused for a few seconds to make sure she was ok because I know the body usually reacts to pain at first by ignoring it before the realization of injury sits in. Those seconds were way too agonizing.

Maybe thats why I am happy to live out in the boonies

To each his own of course. If I had been to 100s of gunshows and this was a first perhaps I would feel differently, but so far my experience is 100% at gunshows and 0% on 38th street

eheh

IC XC

 

[MichaelZWilliamson]

Wow, so one of my fellow dealers thinks it's perfectly okay for him to violate the contracted rules of the show regarding carrying guns. I'm quite sure, though, that he follows all rules on sales tax, proper tying of guns so they can't be operated, and transfer laws. He only disregards INCONVENIENT rules.

In the never-happened-in-at-least-fifteen-years scenario of someone threatening him from across a three foot table, he's sure he can draw against (a knife? That can't reach across the table?) the bad guy fast enough to make a difference, and is sure he won't miss, and doesn't really care if he does, because this is about more important things than other people's safety, rules, or reality, this is about HIM.

I would like to know what vendor name you use, so I can avoid you at all costs. However, I'd be delighted to print out your comments and let the show staff have them. Perhaps they can figure it out.

Oh, wait--this is the internet and I have Dan's personal email address. Problem solved.



As to some others, yes, it's an issue. One day a couple of years ago the Glock armorer pinged the ground at 0800, and some moron (a felon, subletting tables from a friend) pinged himself and a bystander at 1600.

However, publicly posting an intent to "go back with a PKM" is probably a bad idea. I agree with your frustration, but that could be construed as premeditation if you are EVER in a shooting engagement. May I suggest not making posts like that?

And it has improved. It used to be some moron with a long gun would sweep me twice a show. These days, pretty much everyone keeps them vertical.

The violator, and the guy he sublet from without permission, were both banned for life.

And as to the latter, yes, the show has rules against carrying/wearing guns, subletting tables, etc. They can't check every dealer every five minutes for compliance.

And yes, my neighbor showed up Sunday, peeked around, and stuffed his pistol under the table.

And no, most dealers DO NOT carry at the show. I'm at setup on Thurs and there early Friday. I see them all. The only ones who insist on carrying in the show are typically junk dealers with a handful of surplus crap, some leftover ammo and a few trinkets they scored a deal on. None of the professionals are armed in the building, or even under the table.

I've also left my car there all weekend without trouble. If you don't have hip hop CDs out on the seats, you have little to worry about. Nor have I ever heard of anyone being mugged in the 10 yards from the door to the dealer parking lot, in daylight, among 300 other dealers, with cops all over the place. Paranoid much? However, the simple solution would be:

unload in the car. leave ammo in car. Bring gun into show empty (As is allowed). Repeat on exit. This is what I do. If you're really as cool with a gun as you say, it's not a problem. If you're afraid you can't unload/reload without trouble, you probably should get some lessons.

 

[sj kahr k40]

I don't sell guns, in fact I don't sell anything, I set up to bring in new members for a website, not an FFL or a dealer in anything

 

[sj kahr k40]

I expected someone from this site would threaten to tell the show staff, shows what kind of people you have here and why I spend so little time here

 

[jsharmon7]

LOL, wow...

 

[lawrra]

 

[HDSilvrStreak]

I expected someone from this site would threaten to tell the show staff, shows what kind of people you have here and why I spend so little time here

It also shows what kind of people you have over at that other site.

 

[Que]

I expected someone from this site would threaten to tell the show staff, shows what kind of people you have here and why I spend so little time here

Although I am not a proponent for reporting what is said on an internet site, please know the promoter and chief counsel for the show are members on INGO.

 

[Que]

I expected someone from this site would threaten to tell the show staff, shows what kind of people you have here and why I spend so little time here

It also shows what kind of people you have over at that other site.

THIS IS NOT HAPPENING!

 

[GeneralCarver]

Yeah. Too bad about the accident. I was at our table working. I heard it go off. Wasn't too loud, but I was about 50 meters away. I guess his wound was not too bad. We talked with one of the INPD Lt. there afterward and he filled us in on some details. He's out of the show for life though. The crowd gave it a nice round of applause when the show's announcer announced that fact.

Also, guys, don't let this discourage you about how gun owners "look" to the rest of America or the world. Do you get upset about car owners every time someone hits and kills someone? Of course not. The progressive socialist movement in this country has your guns in their cross-hairs, rest assured of that fact. We have set them back politically in the last decade which should be encouraging to us all because it shows that our Republic still has some representation working for us. Get involved in pro constitutional political movements in your local community and state. Keep training to defend your freedoms and support the 2nd Amendment politically. Remember, in history it usually an informed prepared minority in nations which have shaped history and made positive differences in the World. This was true of our country's founding and will be true in our nation's future.