Shotguns found in cars at Fairfield Jr./Sr. High School

[Boilers]

I'd like to see schools defined as the CLASSROOM. Not the mega-millions gym/sports complex (ala Carmel). Not the parking lots. Not the etc. etc. etc....

 

[ATF Consumer]

It is a terrible shame.

This happens to more people than just these two. Laws have become so all encompassing "for our safety" that it will injure us.

Now, when people henceforth use the term felon and criminal... remember you will be talking about these two as well.

They did nothing wrong. Yes, there was a law about it, but it was nothing wrong. People have forgotten that laws are just written by people. And many of them, while good in intent, result in bad situations.

I once heard a lawyer say, hard cases make bad laws. But I refuted that with bad laws make hard cases.

What I don't get, is if they found marijuana in their car... it would be theirs because the car is their property, regardless of why it was there. But, when it's a gun, then the car is ignored.

Absolutely out of control.

Yep, another reason I am against the enforcing of victim-less crime

 

[Bill of Rights]

I really think the best the kids could hope for is a plea bargain.
They should plea guilty to a misdameaner and regain their rights to firearms in the future.

There is no misdemeanor for him to plead guilty to. What they did can only be charged as a felony. Their only hopes are either in a lenient prosecutor or jury nullification.

Barring that, in five to ten years, they might be able to petition the court to have their records expunged or possibly petition for a pardon from the governor.

Very sad, but I do agree that had the shotties come out of the vehicles and been cleaned, there would not have been anything other than a pacl of smokes to find.

Lesson learned: Park off campus.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[haldir]

Lesson learned: Park off campus.

This is a rural school. You either park in the parking lot or someone's yard.

The argument that the gun needed to be taken in and cleaned right away is all well and good, but these are teenagers. I am sure you all were super responsible when you were that age, but I know I wasn't. Heck I would put the shotgun in the trunk and it would stay there until the season was over. Between school, girls, sports, etc. cleaning a gun was the furthest thing from my mind.

 

[Srtsi4wd]

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IC 35-47-9
Chapter 9. Possession of Firearms on School Property and School Buses

<A name=IC35-47-9-1>IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.

So as I understand it, as soon as he turned off the car and left the vehicle with the firearms secured(!) inside out of sight, He committed the felony.

Even though by the text in red he should be covered under an exclusion. It all falls on the definition of "operated". It was his car, he is 18 and he was driving himself and a friend to and from school. Is "operated" defined as being in direct operational control at all times without break, pause or shutdown?

As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.

If this goes thru that means that possession in your vehicle at any of the above is a felony if you stop, park or leave your vehicle at any time, even if the firearm is secured in the trunk.

Are there other statues that may apply? How do you see them being applied?

 

[jedi]

OFF TOPIC A BIT: School Gun Laws

Is the "gun free school zone" a state or federal law? If it's a state when did it occur? It seems that all states have them. When did America loose it's brain on this one?

 

[Robert Richardson]

Before long every infraction will be a Felony!!

 

[femurphy77]

I would think the code could be questioned based on the definition of "possession". Is in his car out in the parking lot "possession" or does it have to be in his hand? As others have noted shotguns and rifles in gun racks were a common sight that no one gave a second thought to in my HS years, 74-77. Smoking wasn't an issue either, they even had a cigarette machine in the cafeteria. The only time it was trouble is when you weren't in the designated smoking area outside.

 

[haldir]

I suppose if we put half the people in prison, we can eliminate unemployment. Reminds me of the old joke: If 90% of the world was Amish what would the other 10% be?










Amish van drivers....

 

[Blaze261]

When I was a junior in H.S our code book said we could have guns. As long as they were for hunting or sporting purposes in our car. I am not sure if they changed it my senior year. This was in 99- 00 time frame. No one ever had any trouble, and no one commited any crimes. Today is a different story.

 

[SavageEagle]

See cigarettes gives someone probable cause to search a vehicle?!

Unfortunately, yes. Schools have gone way too far in the name of security. Kids have no rights anymore.

These kids now might have a class D felony on thier record and will no longer be able to own a gun and go hunting. This is a shame and our founding fathers would be ashamed of this. This is a sad story.

They should get a good lawyer (I know nothing of the one they have) and plead for this to be dismissed BECAUSE it was an honest mistake. No one got hurt and the law is total . If they don't get this thrown out, I'd like to see it taken to the SCOTUS and help win a big victory for gun owners. That's highly optimistic, and I seriously doubt that would happen, but it's a good test case to get it there...

I really think the best the kids could hope for is a plea bargain.
They should plea guilty to a misdameaner and regain their rights to firearms in the future.

As Bill said, it's not possible. I still think they should be exhonorated from this whole mess. They are going to ruin two kid's lives over a stupid bunder that hurt NO ONE. No crime was committed except TO them by being drug through this mess.

I'd like to see schools defined as the CLASSROOM. Not the mega-millions gym/sports complex (ala Carmel). Not the parking lots. Not the etc. etc. etc....

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

IC 35-47-9
Chapter 9. Possession of Firearms on School Property and School Buses

<A name=IC35-47-9-1>IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.

So as I understand it, as soon as he turned off the car and left the vehicle with the firearms secured(!) inside out of sight, He committed the felony.

Even though by the text in red he should be covered under an exclusion. It all falls on the definition of "operated". It was his car, he is 18 and he was driving himself and a friend to and from school. Is "operated" defined as being in direct operational control at all times without break, pause or shutdown?

As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.

If this goes thru that means that possession in your vehicle at any of the above is a felony if you stop, park or leave your vehicle at any time, even if the firearm is secured in the trunk.

Are there other statues that may apply? How do you see them being applied?

You can STOP on school grounds with a firearm ON YOU as long as you are dropping off or picking up and you don't get out of the car. You can sit there for an hour as long as you don't get out.

 

[cosermann]

Why search the car when the cigarettes are in plain view, i.e. no need to search? A reasoable person, opens the car, takes the smokes, end of story.

 

[yotewacker]

We had a teacher a couple of years ago with guns in her trunk. She was told to get them off school property, case closed.
The kids should be given a break unless they find alot more evidence of planning a crime.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

Why search the car when the cigarettes are in plain view, i.e. no need to search? A reasoable person, opens the car, takes the smokes, end of story.

Collection of evidence for proof of rule-breaking and an excuse to search the rest of the vehicle for any additional infractions.

 

[Lucas156]

Wow if I ever have kids makes me want to home school them so I dont have to deal with this load of %$&#

 

[Mr. Habib]

We have all of the zero tolerance policies because the school boards don't trust the administrators that they hire to make decisions that they are trained to make, or use any judgment or common sense. At the school corp where my wife works, if they have an active shooter in the building the principal has to call the superintendent and ask permission to call 911. It's become completely stupid.

 

[Lucas156]

if they have an active shooter in the building the principal has to call the superintendent and ask permission to call 911.

I'll add that to my list of reasons too

 

[public servant]

While I agree it's ridiculous that things have come this far that two kids are up to their eye teeth in a bind because they forgot to remove their hunting weapons from their vehicles...let me ask a question.


How many people do you suppose would be up in arms if the two kids would have started picking off students and teachers in the parking lot after school and it came out that school security and administrators knew the weapons were on the grounds?

The law suits would be knee deep by now. And again...it's silly that things have come this far...but realize why to an extent. Nothing anymore is an accident...it's a reason to litigate.

Had they just put the guns in the trunk...along with their smokes...nothing would have been said. It really is a shame. Hopefully this will be settled without screwing up their lives.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

My son has a small wallet with a light-duty aluminum chain on it, like a junior-sized truckers wallet. He is old enough that my wife and I thought he should start carrying a wallet for his school ID, pocket money, etc.

The first wallet we bought him was just a standard wallet and he ended up misplacing it VERY frequently, so we thought the chain idea was a good one because it was visible to the eye when looking for it, there wasn't a chance of it falling out of his pocket during the day, and it would be resistant to the practical jokers at school that like to steal wallets and throw them in trash cans and tell the person later on, etc.

My son got a warning for the zero-tolerance weapons rule. If the chain breaks (or is broken by someone yanking on the chain during a practical joke) - then it is a weapon. If he unclips the chain at any time during the school day for any reason - it is a weapon.

 

[Lucas156]

They are going to have to get rid of pencils pens scissors anything you can throw that would injure someone I could name a few. Basically almost anything can be turned into a weapon.