Shortening a Saiga 12

[Wesley Willis]

OK, I read the sticky and I know a little about SBS's in Indiana. If it's under 26" overall, or the barrel is under 18" it is illegal in Indiana. But I just want some clarification. I have a Saiga 12 that I would like to shorten, but not that much. The stock barrel is 19", so can I take 1" off of it legally without any paperwork or tax stamps?

Ideally, I'd like to remove about 3" from the barrel. I have it converted to a pistol grip with the trigger moved forward, and basically I would just like to shorten it to make more close in size of a regular AK-47. That would bring the barrel slightly under 18", so that is not possible to do in Indiana at all...correct? Any shotgun with a stock and a barrel under 18" is never legal in Indiana, even with tax stamps and approval from the BATFE?

 

[bigcraig]

The barrel MUST be 18" or more.

The overall length of the gun MUST be 26".

There is NO legal way for an individual to chop a S12 barrel down to less than 18", nor have an OAL of less than 26", none. Yes, it sucks, but that is the way it is. Believe me, if there was some loophole I would have found it. (I have a Red Jacket built S12.)

You are better off just doing the conversion on the gun and leaving the barrel length alone.

 

[Wesley Willis]

That's what I thought, I just thought I would double check.

I already have it converted, I was just looking for something else to do to it! Oh well, guess I will just shoot it some more...

 

[bigcraig]

There are still a few things you can do to it.

Go here for more info, forum.Saiga-12.com .

 

[CountryBoy19]

Remember that a perm attached brake etc will count towards the length as well, so if you find a sweet muzzle attachment you could always chop it down and perm attach the brake.

 

[SERVED_USMC]

Thats the one thing that has always confuzzed me. Silencers, sbr's, aow's and dd's are all good to go. Whats so bad about a sbs?

 

[techres]

Thats the one thing that has always confuzzed me. Silencers, sbr's, aow's and dd's are all good to go. Whats so bad about a sbs?

Yeah, the chinese throwing star ban is goofy too!

 

[SootKing]

how much does a fully automatic saiga 12 cost ?

 

[indoorsoccerfrea]

how much does a fully automatic saiga 12 cost ?

Your rights

 

[I Like Firearms]

Your rights

 

[Hoosier Gun Coat]

There are still a few things you can do to it.

Go here for more info, forum.Saiga-12.com .

I like the drum. Where did you get it.

 

[techres]

how much does a fully automatic saiga 12 cost ?

They are not available in this country to the general public. Since they were made after the closing of the MG list, they are off the list.

 

[shooter521]

That would bring the barrel slightly under 18", so that is not possible to do in Indiana at all...correct?

Correct.

Any shotgun with a stock and a barrel under 18" is never legal in Indiana, even with tax stamps and approval from the BATFE?

A shotgun would need to be registered as an SBS (tax stamp, BATFE approval) to have a barrel less than 18" long. BATFE will not approve or issue a tax stamp for such a gun if the applicant is an Indiana resident.

The closest thing you can do with your Saiga is to have the barrel shortened and a muzzle device permanently attached, such that the total barrel length (including the muzzle device) is a bit over 18", and do the AK conversion package. Best to have a qualified Saiga-smith do the barrel work, since the gas ports may require modification as well.

 

[shooter521]

how much does a fully automatic saiga 12 cost ?

Same as a full-auto AK-47...
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/class_iii_nfa/69913-full_auto_ak-47_a.html

 

[jimbo-indy]

You are right on Shooter 521. Epsylum had his S12 modified by Tromix with the barrel cut down and a flash-hider welded on. The barrel and OA length are right on the legal limit. They did the port work, trigger mods, side folder stock and other stuff at the same time. Went out to shoot it the other day with a mag of 3" buckshot. What a sweet gun. Recoil was about the same as my O/U trap gun.

 

[Clay]

They are not available in this country to the general public. Since they were made after the closing of the MG list, they are off the list.

but, you would always buy a full auto AK variant, and have it converted

that is if you really want to fire a full auto shotgun, and have money to burn

 

[shooter521]

but, you would always buy a full auto AK variant, and have it converted

that is if you really want to fire a full auto shotgun, and have money to burn

 

[bigcraig]

I like the drum. Where did you get it.

MD Arms

The MD20 drum is the only drum worth owning for the S12.

There is another company that makes a drum for the S12 and they are not worth mentioning though.

 

[Clay]

Why the face palm? are you saying it can't be done? I know lots of people who have converted their full auto ak variants to different calibers.

I mean its not like they dont exist:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K-heFRwuWs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUe4NWiOq5A

 

[shooter521]

are you saying it can't be done?

Exactly. I don't see how an AK rifle could be converted into a 12ga; the receiver shell could not physically accommodate the barrel trunnion, bolt carrier assembly or magazine unless *maybe* you completely gutted it, re-bent it, relocated and installed the correct bolt carrier rails, re-cut the mag well, etc etc. And by that time you've basically created a whole new gun, or so ATF would argue. A caliber conversion on an existing platform is one thing; this would be something else entirely.

I mean its not like they dont exist:

Those guns are both post-86 dealer samples - Saiga-12s that were converted to full auto by a Class 2 manufacturer.