Short barrel = short power?

[Simple Ed]

I'm new to guns. I carry a Taurus pt111 g2.
I'm considering a second. Perhaps a revolver (maybe to carry or just for home, or to get the wife involved...) (...and I admire revolvers...)

I've heard that if I get, say, a 357 mag with a stubby, 3-inch barrel, that I'm not getting what the 357 cartridge can promise. Am I castrating the calibre if I put it in a short barrel?

Thanks for advice/counsel!

Ed

 

[Glock10MM]

Out of a 3" barrel, a 125 gr. magnum load will still give you around 1200 fps.

 

[Jarhead77]

My experience says you give up more from an accuracy perspective with a shorter barrel.... power differences are real, but negligible.

 

[Tombs]

My experience says you give up more from an accuracy perspective with a shorter barrel.... power differences are real, but negligible.

Quite the opposite.

There's little to no accuracy difference, it's a matter of the shooter having a harder time with a shorter sight radius.

In power, the 357 magnum becomes pretty much just a 38 special +P when you get down to 3" or less.

If you load your own and play with powder burn rates SAFELY, you might get a snub nose specific load cooked up that might gain back some velocity but it'll never approach what just an additional inch of barrel can do for you.

 

[venenoindy]

My experience says you give up more from an accuracy perspective with a shorter barrel.... power differences are real, but negligible.

The real life loss of velocity is not going to be significant to say that a 3 inch will not do it's job, The Bad guy will never know the difference 3 inch vs 5 inch. Snub nose revolvers are a little harder to shoot well vs a larger frame 4 inch revolver but nothing that practice can cure, in the end rounds on target is what count regardless of caliber. An other thing that you have to take in consideration is that lighter guns recoil more and a .357 Snub nose may not be the ideal gun for the wife unless she uses .38 special.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Its like the difference between getting run over by a pickup truck and getting run over a pickup truck with a rick of wood in the bed. More power? Yes. Noticeably different results? Unlikely.

 

[traderdan]

There are several variables that come into play...cylinder gap, type of rifling..There is a website called" Ballistics by the Inch" that has a lot of good info.

 

[sloughfoot]

Its like the difference between getting run over by a pickup truck and getting run over a pickup truck with a rick of wood in the bed. More power? Yes. Noticeably different results? Unlikely.

This***,, except one of the trucks has no muffler.

Snubbies are really loud.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Just in comparing Speer Short Barrel products:

Their 135gr 38 Special +p has 222 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle of a 2" barrel.

Their 135 gr 357 Mag has 298 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle of a 2" barrel.

That's a THIRTY FOUR percent increase. 34%!!!!

Nothing to sneeze at.

If you can handle the increased recoil, noise, and potential muzzle flash - then, by all means, carry the .357 Mag.

Also note that their 124 gr 9mm +p produces 364 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle of a 3.5" barrel... Which is another + 22% of energy increase over the .357 Mag... And generally with a more pleasant platform from which to launch those pills from, too.

-J-

 

[Liberty Sanders]

Will you lose power? Yes.

Will you lose enough to lose any sleep over it? Nope.

 

[cosermann]

Barrel length directly affects velocity.

Modern JHP defensive bullets are designed to function optimally within a certain fuzzy velocity envelope.

So, yeah, it could cause your ammunition to not perform as designed if you drop significantly below that envelope (which I don't think will happen with a 3" barrel, btw).

The shorter the barrel becomes, the more pronounced this effect will be. (Ex. there are only 3 or 4 loads I'll carry in a 2" 38 for example.)

Additionally, since most published tests of handgun ammunition are with standard barrel lengths (4"), the farther one deviates from this, the less one can generalize from test results to how the ammo might function out of your particular firearm.

Anyway, your ammunition and firearm are a system and should be matched accordingly.

Here's an interesting site where you can see the effect of barrel length on velocity:
BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: Home

Whether it will makes a significant difference or not depends on lots of factors.

 

[indiucky]

Its like the difference between getting run over by a pickup truck and getting run over a pickup truck with a rick of wood in the bed. More power? Yes. Noticeably different results? Unlikely.

Dexter is at it again.....LMAO.......

When will people realize that little holes sized between .22 and .45 of an inch being put into you at between 700 and 1200 FPS always sucks and always has the potential to be fatal??????

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Just in comparing Speer Short Barrel products:

Their 135gr 38 Special +p has 222 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle of a 2" barrel.

Their 135 gr 357 Mag has 298 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle of a 2" barrel.

That's a THIRTY FOUR percent increase. 34%!!!!

Nothing to sneeze at.

The .38 +P shows 10-14" of penetration (depending on intermediate barrier), and the .357 shows 12-16" in the same type of tests. 34% increase in muzzle energy sounds impressive, but it translates into modest gains in penetration and a large amount of overlap. Remember that hollowpoints expand faster with faster velocities, increasing drag quicker, and if they are using the same bullet this will account for the window. Ball ammo gains more from velocity, generally. Hollowpoints need to be designed for the velocity they are intended for to live up to their full potential, and man that's got to be an interesting bit of engineering when you figure the wide range of velocities a bullet could potentially see.

There are times when the extra "oomph" could matter. A bone strike through the upper arm and then into the chest for example. There are also times when the ability to make a second shot faster will matter, and .357 is a hand full in a snubby. Regardless of how well you shoot it, you would have shot the .38 faster. There's a trade off. After testing multiple loads, weights, and brands of .357 and .38 in my LCR I went with .38s. 3" and up I go with .357s. I don't claim that's "right", its just where I believe the extra oomph becomes a bigger factor than the reduction in speed of follow up shots. .38s also extract easier in a snub, as the case length is shorter and the shortened extractor doesn't always push the .357s out far enough to free fall.

My point is don't get too concerned about muzzle energy. It goes back to the truck analogy. More energy doesn't mean more deader. Getting the projectile into a vital bit, with enough retained diameter and energy to disrupt it is the mark of effectiveness. Handling and control concerns that help get that projectile there need to factor into your carry decision as well.

 

[Simple Ed]

Ok, so I've apparently asked a question that is bigger than I supposed. Lots of variables. That's my cue to do a lot more listening than talking!

Here's what I take away: I'll probably never have the "right" gun/ammo/bad-guy scenario. But larger, faster loads may provide better results than the smaller and/or slower. AND...all of it beats using a sharp stick.

Just one more question then, prompted by my new understanding that a 4 inch barrel is, perhaps, the standard at which ammo is rated... If 3 is slower and 4 is just right... does the 5 and 6 inch barrel provide even faster speeds?

Thanks again for putting up with my green-ness!

Ed

 

[sliptap]

Ok, so I've apparently asked a question that is bigger than I supposed. Lots of variables. That's my cue to do a lot more listening than talking!

Here's what I take away: I'll probably never have the "right" gun/ammo/bad-guy scenario. But larger, faster loads may provide better results than the smaller and/or slower. AND...all of it beats using a sharp stick.

Just one more question then, prompted by my new understanding that a 4 inch barrel is, perhaps, the standard at which ammo is rated... If 3 is slower and 4 is just right... does the 5 and 6 inch barrel provide even faster speeds?

Thanks again for putting up with my green-ness!

Ed

Rather than us explain and re-explain, checkout this website. It has pretty much every caliber you'd be interested in and lists the ballistics by barrel length as well:

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: Calibers/Cartridges

I could make an argument that a .357 is noticeably more effective than a .38, but the it's a moot point; you'll read time and time again that the most important factor is shot placement with a respectable caliber and defense round.

Practice with what you've got, find what you yourself shoot the best, then move on and stop worrying 9.5/10 times when a gun is drawn in a self-defense situation, the bad guy will retreat. Leave the other .5 to training.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Just one more question then, prompted by my new understanding that a 4 inch barrel is, perhaps, the standard at which ammo is rated...

It varies. Sometimes you can look on an ammo manufacturer's website and see what length test barrel they use for a given ammo to get that FPS they put on the box. A .357 is traditionally tested in a 6" barrel.

BBTI, the web site listed, does have some very valuable info. Just remember that not all guns are created equal (which is one reason why test barrels are used in professional labs) so don't take the exact figures as gospel. A shot out barrel, loose tolerances, larger cylinder gap, etc. can reduce velocity just as much as reduced barrel length. Just don't read too much into it. Its sort of like judging a race car by its top speed alone. Its good info to have, but it doesn't give you the full picture of performance.

 

[Jarhead77]

Quite the opposite.

There's little to no accuracy difference, it's a matter of the shooter having a harder time with a shorter sight radius.

In power, the 357 magnum becomes pretty much just a 38 special +P when you get down to 3" or less.

If you load your own and play with powder burn rates SAFELY, you might get a snub nose specific load cooked up that might gain back some velocity but it'll never approach what just an additional inch of barrel can do for you.

How is that opposite? Shorter barrel, harder to aim= reduced accuracy ...power loss is negligible= still goes bang and can take out your target.

 

[Glock10MM]

A .357 is traditionally tested in a 6" barrel.

That also varies, not to long too long ago I noticed this.

Detail Page for Part # 23920
I was pleased to see they used a 4" and, in the 135 gr. "short barrel load" they claimed to have used a 2"
Detail Page for Part # 23917

But, for the 44 Magnum 200gr. "short barrel load," they used a 4".
Detail Page for Part # 23971

 

[Simple Ed]

Rather than us explain and re-explain, checkout this website. It has pretty much every caliber you'd be interested in and lists the ballistics by barrel length as well:

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: Calibers/Cartridges

I could make an argument that a .357 is noticeably more effective than a .38, but the it's a moot point; you'll read time and time again that the most important factor is shot placement with a respectable caliber and defense round.

Practice with what you've got, find what you yourself shoot the best, then move on and stop worrying 9.5/10 times when a gun is drawn in a self-defense situation, the bad guy will retreat. Leave the other .5 to training.

Thank you for the nudge toward this website. I see that there is a rather general, linear relationship between barrel length and FPS. That makes sense. I guess now it's just a matter of how deep my pockets are. Not for money, but to shove the barrel down there!

 

[Birds Away]

Carry what you can hit quickly with. Nothing else really matters. If you can't hit with it then it doesn't matter if it's going the speed of light it will not help you.