Shooting at PD Imposter

[jedi]

We tolerate you when you drive south of 30

That is what our momma tells us when we talk about you to.

Now if you excuse me I got some "practicing" to do on BF2.

 

[MrYesterday]

Considering no hispanic police officers came forward saying "Some kid shot at me!", the kid stopped the crime before it was a crime, like Minority Report.

 

[Wild Deuce]

I understand both sides of this debate though I think Jediagh is just slightly off the mark. The linchpin isn't the stuff that was highlighted in blue .... the linchpin is: "... if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary ..." Even if the imposter never acted threatening or made a threat, if the young man can concince a DA/Jury that he was in fear for his life (or that any other reasonable person would have been in fear for their life) and acted accordingly, he would stand a chance of justifying his actions. Right now, it seems like he's dodged a bullet and will not need to justify his actions any further.

SouthernComfort has the correct idea (start verbalizing the fear you felt right away). However, like the given story, it would be hard to prove (fear for my life) in absence of the J in AOJ (Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy).

 

[Wild Deuce]

OP why are you impersonating LEOs?
The article said "A Hispanic male,..." & since I was home typing away on INGO and playing BF2 that only leaves you.
...

-Jedi

Nope. This occured on the 600 block of 177th Street. That's ayyyy toooo faaarr for me to ever drive.

 

[jedi]

I understand both sides of this debate though I think Jediagh is just slightly off the mark. The linchpin isn't the stuff that was highlighted in blue .... the linchpin is: "... if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary ..." Even if the imposter never acted threatening or made a threat, if the young man can concince a DA/Jury that he was in fear for his life (

The reasonable believes only applies to the two items in blue in this case WD.

..if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony.


Did the victim reasonably believe that force was needed to prevent serious bodily injury [STRIKE]or commission of forcible felony.[/STRIKE]

I'm striking out the latter since it was not a forcible felony. Felony yes.

-Jedi

 

[TTravis]

Now the bad guy is gong to need to get some of those fake bullet hole stickers to cover up the real bullet holes in his vehicle!

 

[Hammerhead]

Instead of shooting at the guy, he should have turned the tables and robbed him. Free car with fancy lights! Woohoo!

 

[Wild Deuce]

Jediagh, I think we're on the same page. It's just semantics at this point. My point was that it doesn't matter if the LTCH holder is or is not about to suffer serious/grave bodily harm, he only has to believe it at the time (and so should any reasonable person in the same situation) and convince the DA and/or jury.

When the real police arrived and found a dead police impersonator, would that not establish jeopardy, because a police impersonator pulling people over has no good intentions?

People dont impersonate the police and pull people over to give out safe driving awards.

Impersonating a police officer seems like it would be a grey area for the Jeopardy requirement but I wasn't there ... I don't know. However, if I was on the jury, I would be on your side. The average citizen might not be so accommodating.


Just for clarity (in case anyone hasn't been to a Deadly Force class)....

Ability - Does the person have the means to cause grave bodily harm? (gun, knife, bat, scissors, etc. in his hand?)

Opportunity - Can the person cause grave bodily harm? (Is he 2 feet away? 20 feet away? 100 yards away? 5 miles away? other side of a steel door? etc.)

Jeopardy - Is the person demonstrating an immediate intent to cause grave bodily harm? (what is the person saying/doing?)





Examples (only one of these meets the criteria for a "justifiable shoot"):

• Guy at the sports shop showing you his Kershaw Blur has Ability (knife in his hand) and Opportunity (you are well within range) but no Jeopardy (he's a salesman trying to make a sale).
• Your buddy at the IDPA match walking by and saying hello has Ability (pistol in the holster) and Opportunity (you're within pistol range) but no Jeopardy (he's your buddy saying hello while walking by).
• A 6'8", 275 lb man in your bedroom screaming that he's going to kill you and lunging at you from five feet away has Ability (sheer size), Opportunity (you are within his grasp), and Jeopardy (he is communicating his intent verbally and physically).
• A 5'8", 290 lb man on the other side of the highway in the middle of rush hour screaming that he's going to kill you while waving a katana has Ability (sword in his hand) and Jeopardy (he is communicating his intent verbally and visually) but does not have Opportunity (he can not reach you physically before you could leave the area and his weapon is limited in range).

Like Jediagh suggested, if you want to know more ... take a class. Everyone that owns a weapon or might have to defend themselves at any time should invest in such a class. If nothing else, get this book.

 

[jblomenberg16]

The story was not very well written, but almost sounds like the poser may have been the one that brandished a pistol, which then could give the alleged victim even more reason to be afraid for his life and use deadly force.

 

[BiscuitNaBasket]

As already stated, adults in Indiana can obtain a LTCH. They're not allowed to buy a handgun (from an FFL?) or ammunition (at the store?) for it but they can get a license and carry. If they're old enough to be pressed into military service, they should very well be allowed the privilege of defending themselves.

Thank you for clearing that up. I didn't realize that you could be 18 with a LTCH and carry a handgun.

 

[subtlesixer03]

Hey is not robbery a forcible felonly? Thus this would justify UODF. Also I wonder if this also applies to the occupied vehical part of the law as well. I would also say that useing the power of police to remove a person from there vehicle would quilifiy as the threat of of deadly force. I would certainlly and reasonibly assume that someone impersonating a LEO is armed. I have never been pulled over or talked to one on duty that wasnt armed. I definitly would have been in fear for my life as well.

 

[red_zr24x4]

Who's not to say if the 18 yr old did not comply with him he wouldn't have pulled a knife or gun? If the 18yr old was a woman the douch bag might have tried to rape her. Anything could have happened if he hadn't pulled his firearm.