Shoot / Don't Shoot

[J4Me]

Here's the scenario. It's 5 a.m. and you've stopped in at your favorite gas station for a cup of joe. The place is empty except for the clerk who is a small elderly lady. After you pour your coffee you turn around to go pay and see a large, menacing looking dude pulling a handgun out of his jacket pocket. He obviously didn't notice you when he came in and, somehow, you didn't hear him come in, either. With his back to you, he points the gun at the clerk, tells her to empty the drawer and threatens to shoot her. What's your next move?

 

[Dino81]

I would shoot, but maybe..possibly say something...just so that he turned and you just didn't shoot him in the back. You should be ok if you just shot, as someone else's life was in eminent danger.

 

[concrete dog]

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I would shoot, but maybe..possibly say something...just so that he turned and you just didn't shoot him in the back. You should be ok if you just shot, as someone else's life was in eminent danger.

Contrary to popular belief, you can shoot someone in the back. This would be a perfect example. Why possibly startle him by saying something and the result being him shooting the clerk?

 

[ziggy]

Take cover, draw your firearm, tell the BG to drop his gun, and say "you are under arrest." The next move is up to him. If he points the gun at you, you can shoot. If he runs, you or the clerk call the cops. If he does not respond to your verbal orders, repeat them.
Do not shoot unless you must do so to defend yourself or you can reasonably argue that that was your only course of action to protect the clerk.

 

[daddymikey1975]

I would draw, acquire sights (as long as I can safely miss elderly lady) and firmly holler "Freeze mother b!^@h"

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUTa1giS1rs[/ame]

If he does anything besides freeze, he gets lead poisoning and leaks. Period.

 

[No2rdame]

Considering the fact that a former Kroger manager shot and killed an armed assailant who took a woman hostage and is now being sued by the woman he saved, I say **** it. I'll protect myself and my family, but I'm not going to risk losing everything by saving someone who may be ungrateful.

RTV6 - Woman held at gunpoint in Indianapolis Kroger sues grocery chain, former manager who shot robber - Local Story

 

[Dino81]

Very true frank. And ziggy, that's a good answer too

 

[daddymikey1975]

Considering the fact that a former Kroger manager shot and killed an armed assailant who took a woman hostage and is now being sued by the woman he saved, I say **** it. I'll protect myself and my family, but I'm not going to risk losing everything by saving someone who may be ungrateful.

RTV6 - Woman held at gunpoint in Indianapolis Kroger sues grocery chain, former manager who shot robber - Local Story

I suppose we can re-evaluate the "make sure we can miss the clerk" part of my reply.. that should alleviate the potential for a lawsuit

Use purple if you want to

 

[BiscuitNaBasket]

I would have gotten his muzzle pointed away from the clerk before opening fire.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Take cover, draw your firearm, tell the BG to drop his gun, and say "you are under arrest." The next move is up to him. If he points the gun at you, you can shoot. If he runs, you or the clerk call the cops. If he does not respond to your verbal orders, repeat them.
Do not shoot unless you must do so to defend yourself or you can reasonably argue that that was your only course of action to protect the clerk.

If you aren't a police officer why would you tell him he's under arrest? Do you have handcuffs on your person in the off chance that he actually throws down his gun and gives up? In the situation presented by the OP, you can shoot him before he points his gun at you.

 

[jerryv]

I have no idea what I'd do. It would depend on how it felt, how everything looked, what the store was like, what the creep seemed to be like. The idea that he's got a weapon trained on an innocent, and that any action on my part could trigger something ... Scary. If it seemed that he would not be likely to harm the clerk it might be better to let him get the money and leave. If he was 'methed' up and looking crazy, it might be better to try to distract and shoot him. I would certainly hope never to be in that situation. But just having a weapon doesn't make me the Lone Ranger ... and I wouldn't want to make a bad situation worse.

But in fact, I wouldn't ever be in that situation .. since this was in a gas station at 5am .. and I'm asleep in a comfy bed.

 

[You'll shoot your eye out]

Contrary to popular belief, you can shoot someone in the back. This would be a perfect example. Why possibly startle him by saying something and the result being him shooting the clerk?

Most of us don't think that TV has had an effect on our morals and values but I believe it does. I would be willing to bet that most of us who grew up with black and white TV Would have a difficulty shooting someone in the back. Just consider the TV series that I watched, Paladin, Rawhide, Maverick, Gunsmoke, Bonanza.

We were grilled several times a day that you NEVER shoot a guy in the back. It seeped into our core beliefs without us ever being aware of it. I have found other "indoctrinated" feelings surfacing and often wondered why I instinctively Believed silly things. With color TV came the "Counter Culture" and I don't believe that anybody can deny that TV was the driving force behind that.

"Not shooting someone in the back" is just one reason that LEO needs to be trained so thoroughly. These personal ideas need to be replaced with a uniform set of values that can be relied on. For instance, I would hate for one officer to get killed because another officer hesitated to shoot a guy in the back, even if I hate to see someone shot in the back myself.

Occasionally the general public is scandalized by an action taken by police. The action could be in line with police training but not in line with public morals. Younger people also could have a vastly different view on events than older guys. It depends on the influences that you were exposed to in the formative years.

 

[Jack Burton]

Hand the clerk a baseball bat... it works so well in Chicago.

 

[cedartop]

If you aren't a police officer why would you tell him he's under arrest? Do you have handcuffs on your person in the off chance that he actually throws down his gun and gives up? In the situation presented by the OP, you can shoot him before he points his gun at you.

You beat me to it.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

 

[rbMPSH12]

Wasn't there an off-duty IMPD officer recently in this situation? I think I remember reading about that somewhere, maybe on INGO. Supposedly he was CCing in a convenience store when a guy walked in, didn't notice him by the drinks, and tried to rob the place. So he turned around and shot and killed the robber.

 

[wtfd661]

Turn around and go get some sugar for my coffee causing knowing me I forget it the first time (and maybe grab some donuts cause their looking mighty good and calling my name)

 

[88GT]

Take cover, draw your firearm, tell the BG to drop his gun, and say "you are under arrest." The next move is up to him. If he points the gun at you, you can shoot. If he runs, you or the clerk call the cops. If he does not respond to your verbal orders, repeat them.
Do not shoot unless you must do so to defend yourself or you can reasonably argue that that was your only course of action to protect the clerk.

It's a justified shoot as the OP describes it. THe question is what factors the INGOer uses to assess the situation and make his (or her) choice. You do NOT have to prove that shooting was a last resort AFAIK.

If you aren't a police officer why would you tell him he's under arrest? Do you have handcuffs on your person in the off chance that he actually throws down his gun and gives up? In the situation presented by the OP, you can shoot him before he points his gun at you.

Is it illegal to tell him he's under arrest?

If not, why wouldn't I? If I were concerned about trying to avoid discharging the firearm, that is.

 

[Dirtebiker]

Considering the fact that a former Kroger manager shot and killed an armed assailant who took a woman hostage and is now being sued by the woman he saved, I say **** it. I'll protect myself and my family, but I'm not going to risk losing everything by saving someone who may be ungrateful.

RTV6 - Woman held at gunpoint in Indianapolis Kroger sues grocery chain, former manager who shot robber - Local Story

I'd take the chance!