Sheriff David Clarke has a message for America's Black community...

[Que]

I get the lure of sudden national attention given to him, but he did not gain that national attention from Republicans by acting like just another democrat. Surely with the somewhat unearned reputation of Republicans, the prospect of seeing a Black LEO saying republican-ish things is a desirable thing for the party. Where are his loyalties now? Well, what has he said that's different now than before 2014. People leave parties when they no longer represent their beliefs. Maybe Clark thinks the Democrats have embraced too much of the progressive social justice platform.

This sounds reasonable and thanks for the thoughtful reply. I see some of the other's who have backed this new Republican platform and it honestly makes me pause and take a closer look at some of the issues I've supported. I like the Sheriff and really hope he's on the straight and narrow as it relates to gun rights. We may disagree in other areas, but that's certainly okay.

 

[pudly]

BLM, at least the way they're doing it, isn't going to help resolve those pockets of actual racism remaining.

That is because BLM is one of those pockets of actual racism. Need a dozen or so illustrations?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Where's the message for the white community? Or do I have to go to mostly black conservative website to find such interest? Clean your own house before you try to clean someone else's. And even if it's cleaner, I bet it's still to dirty for you to be giving someone else cleaning advice.

Kut (knows that will go over many heads)

 

[HoughMade]

Where's the message for the white community? Or do I have to go to mostly black conservative website to find such interest? Clean your own house before you try to clean someone else's. And even if it's cleaner, I bet it's still to dirty for you to be giving someone else cleaning advice.

Kut (knows that will go over many heads)

What, exact, message to the "white community" are you suggesting needs to be sent?

...and I would add that there really isn't a "white community" that I'm aware of. I mean, there's plenty of white people, but I'm not aware of any but the worst and weirdest suggesting that being white makes them part of some monolithic "community" with common interests.

As to my personal hobbyhorse issue, I am perfectly content with the message: "Get married, THEN have kids, and stay married." No race or ethnicity need be specified.

 

[bwframe]

 

[searpinski]

I'd love to meet this guy. Powerful words full of truth.

 

[jamil]

What, exact, message to the "white community" are you suggesting needs to be sent?

...and I would add that there really isn't a "white community" that I'm aware of. I mean, there's plenty of white people, but I'm not aware of any but the worst and weirdest suggesting that being white makes them part of some monolithic "community" with common interests.

As to my personal hobbyhorse issue, I am perfectly content with the message: "Get married, THEN have kids, and stay married." No race or ethnicity need be specified.

It's a point I was going to make elsewhere and didn't. If we're going to say the "black community" or the "white community", as communities, they really aren't based on race as much as culture or ideology.

I don't feel like I'm part of a "white community". The communities to which I belong and identify with have nothing to do with race and contain people of various races. My culture is a hybrid of my social experience. My "community", the people I mostly identify with, doesn't include racists. BLM is complaining about unjust and unequal treatment by police. I'm not part of that community either.

I have said that I don't think BLM will reach the people it needs to reach. Whatever racist problems still remain among white police officers or even institutionally by some police agencies, chanting pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon, isn't going to fix that.

Where's the message for the white community? Or do I have to go to mostly black conservative website to find such interest? Clean your own house before you try to clean someone else's. And even if it's cleaner, I bet it's still to dirty for you to be giving someone else cleaning advice.

Kut (knows that will go over many heads)

Kut, I don't know how to respond to that in the way you want. As Hough and I have said, there really isn't a "white" community. I'm not really part of any of the communities that can fix whatever problems there are. I'm not a cop. I'm not a politician. I'm not a policy maker.

So instead, how about this? Just among ourselves here, let's hash this out. Let's solve the problem of racism. Just lay it out on the table, you give your input from your perspective for what white people need to do, and I'll give mine for what I think Black people need to be doing. No animosity. No butthurt. Just honesty. And a desire to fix it. So here goes.

• If Black people want to fix the real racial problems, and I believe most do, I would suggest you first demand that BLM changes its name to something that leaves no doubt for their motives. The name they chose only means what they profess it means to the choir they're preaching to. It is otherwise divisive.
• Put Al Sharpton and his ilk in their place. Tell them to **** right off. They show up to an event, escort them off premises. Racial harmony is not in the interest of people like that.
• Schedule as many "getting to know.." kind of get-togethers as they can. In my own experience, the more people I really get to know, the more friends and allies can make. It's harder to discriminate against people you actually like and trust.
• Change the way you protest. The way BLM is protesting, they only divide more. Their protests are conducted as an "us" vs "them" tool. And what makes me very suspicious of BLM is that they disavowed the "getting to know..." BBQs with police. Are they afraid people might actually become more united? That's surely what it looks like to me. And their rhetoric defending that only tends to support the suspicion.
• The black community also needs to admit the extent to which they contribute to the problem. Blacks disproportionately commit much more crime than whites. We've discussed why. Poverty. Culture. Sense of hopelessness. If the police encounter a culture of violence in a particular community, individually, why wouldn't they be instinctively more suspicious? If high crime makes cops more suspicious, it seems like that problem needs fixed first. What causes that crime? Reduce that and you can reduce the mistrust that contributes to police treating blacks differently.
• Drop the "snitches get stitches" attitude. I realize some of that is based on mistrust of police, some earned, some unearned. And that's certainly something that needs fixed. I'm not sure to what extent uncooperative victims contribute to the higher black crime. But it stands to reason that if fewer bad guys are caught, then they're free to commit more crime. It is a disservice to the community not to cooperate with police investigations to help find the people harming their communities.
• Be honest about the facts when a white cop shoots a black person. Honesty would have prevented the riots in Ferguson. Like with any police shooting, sometimes it's justified, sometimes not, and in just about all cases, we don't know until we have all the evidence. When we heard the evidence in the Brown shooting, we found out it was justified. All that rioting and looting happened because of a lie. I think most white people, at least the ones I encounter, can look at the evidence and make a right judgement. From my perspective, two years after the event, the most prominent Blacks speaking out on the issue still can't admit "hands up don't shoot" didn't happen. How can the rest of the public take them seriously if they can't admit the truth?

 

[bwframe]

 

[jamil]

I think an honest discussion about race is possible even if the people involved are biased. I mean, damn, on a gun forum, if we can have an honest discussion about 1911s vs Glock, surely race is possible.

 

[Tombs]

I think an honest discussion about race is possible even if the people involved are biased. I mean, damn, on a gun forum, if we can have an honest discussion about 1911s vs Glock, surely race is possible.

I gave it my best shot and wasn't even invited on a second date. Good luck and godspeed.

 

[Kutnupe14]

What, exact, message to the "white community" are you suggesting needs to be sent?

...and I would add that there really isn't a "white community" that I'm aware of. I mean, there's plenty of white people, but I'm not aware of any but the worst and weirdest suggesting that being white makes them part of some monolithic "community" with common interests.

As to my personal hobbyhorse issue, I am perfectly content with the message: "Get married, THEN have kids, and stay married." No race or ethnicity need be specified.

Call me crazy, but within the sphere of my argument, there's only an American community. If you're going to complain (speaking generally) about hyphenated Americans, then how about not separating Americans in the essentially the same way.

 

[jamil]

Call me crazy, but within the sphere of my argument, there's only an American community. If you're going to complain (speaking generally) about hyphenated Americans, then how about not separating Americans in the essentially the same way.

Perhaps you didn't reveal enough of your argument then.

Speaking of which, I'm hoping you'll be working on your list of what white people need to do to help resolve their part of the responsibility for the problem.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Perhaps you didn't reveal enough of your argument then.

Speaking of which, I'm hoping you'll be working on your list of what white people need to do to help resolve their part of the responsibility for the problem.

I can think of any issue that solely affects white people? But I can think of plenty of issues that affect Americans. The question is, is this an issue for all Americans to solve, or just the hyphenated ones?

 

[HoughMade]

I can think of any issue that solely affects white people? But I can think of plenty of issues that affect Americans. The question is, is this an issue for all Americans to solve, or just the hyphenated ones?

I don't know that anyone suggested that a specific problem is exclusive to a racial or ethnic group. I know I didn't. However, there are some issues which seem to affect different racial or ethnic groups disproportionately and exploring why that may be may be a very valid way to begin to address the issue in that group.

 

[jamil]

I can think of any issue that solely affects white people? But I can think of plenty of issues that affect Americans. The question is, is this an issue for all Americans to solve, or just the hyphenated ones?

It seems you've changed your argument. Before you talked about "Black community" and "White community". Now you're talking about the American community. I do appreciate that and we can talk about that too. But the points I posted are still things that I think have to happen before this can be resolved. Certainly the list of 6 demands from BLM isn't gonna get it done.

 

[KG1]

The question is do certain hyphenated Americans (ahem..BLM, J. Jackson, A. Sharpton etc..) want an actual constructive discussion to include all Americans?

 

[Kutnupe14]

It seems you've changed your argument. Before you talked about "Black community" and "White community". Now you're talking about the American community. I do appreciate that and we can talk about that too. But the points I posted are still things that I think have to happen before this can be resolved. Certainly the list of 6 demands from BLM isn't gonna get it done.

Those 6 demands are ridiculous, and should be viewed (speaking generally as some do have merit) as by any sane person of any color. When I spoke of the "black" and "white" communities, I was being purposefully ignorant in use. As long as people view problems in terms of race, the American Community can't ever really exist. The problems are nation have are shared by all, and sure, certain demographics are more prone to those issues than others, but problems are prevalent enough amongst all, that nobody should be pointing fingers.

 

[Twangbanger]

I gave it my best shot and wasn't even invited on a second date. Good luck and godspeed.

Yeppper. Jam just collected his kiss on the cheek.

 

[jamil]

Those 6 demands are ridiculous, and should be viewed (speaking generally as some do have merit) as by any sane person of any color. When I spoke of the "black" and "white" communities, I was being purposefully ignorant in use. As long as people view problems in terms of race, the American Community can't ever really exist. The problems are nation have are shared by all, and sure, certain demographics are more prone to those issues than others, but problems are prevalent enough amongst all, that nobody should be pointing fingers.

I liked some of the demands as they were pretty libertarian in concept. But they made it sound awfully like they wanted it to apply only for Blacks. Overall, the libertarian demands not withstanding, I got the impression they essentially want a racially separated communist society where white people fund their entire existence.

So, some questions and comments on that and other things. Do you still insist BLM is not an organization? And, are we done? No second date?

I completely agree that making issues just about race won't solve any of the problems. And if there is any finger pointing necessary, it shouldn't have anything to do with DNA or pigmentation. But it is fair to talk about the causes of poverty and violent crime, and how much the culture of race and ideology impacts that. And it's fair to talk about the identifying differences that make Whites and Blacks resistant to regarding skin pigmentation as unimportant. Because both races have elements within that insist on making race more important than it is, it will take an honest and open discussion to get to the point where race doesn't matter. And, given BLM's demands, and the willingness of the White Leftists to embrace them, society isn't ready for the discussion we need to have. It's full steam in the opposite direction.

BLM obviously wants race to perpetually matter. It's in the name. But there is obviously a purpose beyond race that is ideological, that transcends cops targeting blacks. That list of demands betrays their real purpose.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I liked some of the demands as they were pretty libertarian in concept. But they made it sound awfully like they wanted it to apply only for Blacks. Overall, the libertarian demands not withstanding, I got the impression they essentially want a racially separated communist society where white people fund their entire existence.

So, some questions and comments on that and other things. Do you still insist BLM is not an organization? And, are we done? No second date?

I completely agree that making issues just about race won't solve any of the problems. And if there is any finger pointing necessary, it shouldn't have anything to do with DNA or pigmentation. But it is fair to talk about the causes of poverty and violent crime, and how much the culture of race and ideology impacts that. And it's fair to talk about the identifying differences that make Whites and Blacks resistant to regarding skin pigmentation as unimportant. Because both races have elements within that insist on making race more important than it is, it will take an honest and open discussion to get to the point where race doesn't matter. And, given BLM's demands, and the willingness of the White Leftists to embrace them, society isn't ready for the discussion we need to have. It's full steam in the opposite direction.

BLM obviously wants race to perpetually matter. It's in the name. But there is obviously a purpose beyond race that is ideological, that transcends cops targeting blacks. That list of demands betrays their real purpose.

Yes, completely. If I could gather up a 100 black people to go around marching with BLM signs, having never been associated with them before, I would be labeled part of BLM, and no one would have the authority to say I wasn't part of the movement. Now, are there certain places/cities that BLM has organized? Yes, obviously. But their views may vary significantly from other BLM groups that have organized. The BLM movement, is more akin to the Occupy, Anti-War, Labor, Gay Rights, or Women's Rights movements, where many different factions are associated with the movement, but their leadership structure, ideas of goals, and implementation may vary wildly. I can't think of any organization where this exists. Organizations, in the vast majority of instances, have clearly defined leaders, who those underneath are accountable, clearly defined goals, and an understood method of implementation.