Selling firearm back to a friend - not sure what to do

[Michiana]

FFL Transfering the gun for you

If you transfer through an FFL (like sooooooo many others have stated) then the onus is on the federal government to determine suitability of the purchaser. All of the rest (bill of sale, your opinion of suitability, etc.) is irrelevant.
OR - do the FFL transfer and be done with them.

Just my two cents. Worth nothing in the long run. Best of luck.

A FFL needs to be very careful about straw purchases. In this case being a FFL I already know from reading this thread all about the boyfriend situation which makes this purchase suspect and I would refuse to do the transfer for her. If she went to another FFL who does not know about the background of this situation and she goes thru the background check and passes than the boyfriend is a non issue for the FFL. If she gives any indicaton that this gun will eventually end up with Mr. XYZ the FFL should pass on doing the transfer. I would rather error on the safe side and lose a $20 transfer then end up in court or worse. My advice to you is go by your gut feelings, they are usually the right ones to follow.

 

[GregD]

With the late night phone call I would have to guess that there is something very wrong with this transfer. You can bet that he will be the one with the guns. I would do the transfer through an FFl only, but to be honest I would just tell her you know where the guns are going and that you can't do the deal.
I would also contact her ex-husband and let him know the situation because the guns were probably bought by him and are still listed in his name.
Be sure and let us know how this turns out. You sure do have a bad situation here.

 

[Indy317]

A few thoughts if you are worried about liability. It sounds like you have two issues that _might_ cause a liability issue:

#1: You purchased guns from two individuals with the promise to sell them back at the same price if they decided to repurchase them at a later date. Well, for starters, you made a deal with two people. Only one half wants to take you up on you prior verbal/written (?) agreement. Tell her that she only gets half the agreement to start with. Secondly, she is basically saying the guns were her ex-husbands, not hers, so she may not have a leg to stand on. Try to get her to admit this in e-mail/recorded conversation. I wouldn't have explained anything to her. Even if you legally have to sell the guns back to them, it sounds like it would have to be them. Now that their status has changed, a judge might rule you have to make a deal with her for one gun (and pay half the money back).

#2: If you are worried about being liable for something she or her new bf/husband does with the guns (or her getting them for an ex-felon, etc), then I would totally pass on selling her the guns. Document everything and tell her to file a civil lawsuit. Worst case scenario is that you are out an additional money to cover her court costs, which last I checked as only $150ish. At least then you would have a court order to clear you if something happens later on (like the ex comes back and wants the deal--thinking you don't know he has a felony now).

Given the type of things she is saying/doing, I would not re-sell the weapons to them at all. I also would make sure to get an alarm system (wireless) and good safe. You have now become a possible target for a burglary if you ask me. This alone would push me to want to sell her back the guns, just to take care of that aspect of this. Personally, I would do the FFL thing and I would eat the fees. Surely you can find someone who will do both guns for $25-$35.00? Better to let them go instead of being marked as someone with two decent guns ripe for selling on the street.

The only thing I would caution is that are you sure, with proof, the ex-husband is a felon now and can't own guns? If not, what happens if he shows back up in the picture wanting to buy them back?

This thread really has nothing of value. Everything presented is "possible", "what if" type stuff. I have never heard of a non-felon spouse not being able to buy a weapon even if he/she is married to a felon. There also has to be intent. Yes, the government has been known to take questionable cases and run with them. That may or may not happen in this instance, which is why you shouldn't have even posted proof of this issue on a public message board.

I would tell her the agreement is selling back to her via an FFL which you will pay for. That clears you of any wrong doing #1. Proves you wanted to make sure she was clean #2. And will now clear up any future break-ins to your residence because right now you are _known_ to have two guns. The only issue left would be if the ex-husband came back into the picture and wanted the guns (unless you can prove he has a felony and can't have firearms).

The only other advice I would tell you is to lie to her. Tell her you came into some money issues and the guns are sold to someone else. Tell her you sold them on gunbroker or whatever. That solves the issue of her wanting them back, and then makes it appear you no longer are known to have at least two firearms in your possession.

 

[TripleL]

I'm sorry that I have to ask this question since no one has but I think it's relevant to your situation. Suspecting that the new husband is really the one who wants the guns, do you fear for your safety if you don't sell your guns back to your friend? Frankly, I wouldn't know what to do either.

 

[indyjs]

You could call the police and ask them. Sell the gun at your place, report her for having a firearm in the car without a permit.

 

[aikidoka]

You could call the police and ask them. Sell the gun at your place, report her for having a firearm in the car without a permit.

Besides the dishonety and outright backstabbing nature of that, how do you explain selling a firearm to someone who was just going to carry it home without a case and you called the police on them which indicates you knew they didn't have a case and they didnt have an LTCH?

Or are you saying to add on the lies by lying to the police and saying you didnt sell it to them?

 

[aikidoka]

The more I think about this, covering my *** at the expense of the FFL is not sitting well with me.

If they would just prove that he is not a felon all this would be over with.

 

[RH822-A]

Look at this another way. You bought the guns SEVERAL years ago. The obligation to sell them back expired when the couple got divorced. Tell her no, if she wanted them back that bad, maybe she should have made arrangement to buy them a FEW years ago. You should not be held to a statement that was made out sympathy for your friend SEVERAL years ago.

RH

 

[Benny]

Let's keep in mind I am not sure if he is a felon.

If I saved my IMs with her from way back I might be able to determine that. However, he also lied A LOT at that time so it would be a mess to go through.

He is the one that called and woke me up. He just said she was very upset. He said they are separated and he doesn't even live with her. I said I had already sent her an IM explaining how we could still do this. He then started to say he thought I was wrong to change the agreement, at which point I hung up because I wasn't in the mood to explain the situation all over again.

He was NOT threatening, loud or rude in his language.

They really don't help themselves by him saying he doesn't live there. How about saying I'm not a felon and you can contact my parole officer to verify that? They are clearly not divorced and there is no guarantee that will happen and they still see each other even though he is not living there, which to me means he may be around the guns if he is visiting at her place. If he is a felon, they need to be checking with his parole officer about her having a gun in the home as well.

Sounds like you need to find out for sure if he is a felon or not...If he is calling you at 1 in the morning to express how he is upset that you aren't going through your original agreement clearly shows he has a vested interest in her getting those guns back.

BTW, why in hell would he care if she had them if they are "separated" right now?

You could call the police and ask them. Sell the gun at your place, report her for having a firearm in the car without a permit.

Worst idea of the thread. This is his friend we are talking about...If this is how you feel, I'm glad you aren't my friend.

 

[Indecision]

I would say you sold them to a private party because you got sick of them harassing you about it and they didn't want to make the effort to prove he could legally own them.

I also agree, the offer expired with the marriage.

 

[public servant]

I also agree, the offer expired with the marriage.

This ^^

You originally agreed to sell them back to the ex-husband and her. If he's no longer a part of the equation then the original equation is null and void...keep them.

If you end up in court in a civil case over them (it ain't gonna happen) then explain to the judge why. If he orders you to return them then you're covered.

But there is no way I'm selling a gun to anyone who may be buying them for someone with a shady background. I'm not going to prison for anyone. He called you at 1 AM...he has an interest in these guns for some reason.

Tell her no. You have no requirement to explain yourself. If she...or he...doesn't like it tell them to take a hike.

If you still feel badly about it (I wouldn't...I'm sure this was not intended to be a life long deal), then give her, in cash, the fair market value (minus what you already gave her) and get a good night's sleep.

 

[darinb]

It turns out her husband got a felony while they were married so "turned the guns over to her" while they were still married.

I had a lady come into get a rifle out of pawn that her husband had pawned in his name, do to the regulations only he could get them out. She then told me he has a felony and she was wanting to pick them up for him since he could not pass the background check. She got a bit hostile so we called the ATF and asked and they said anyone who has a firearm around a felon could be charged with providing a felon with a deadly weapon regardless of the relationship. I had a friend who got a felony and lived at home with his dad and all his and his fathers guns had to be stored out of the home away from my friends possession. I would seriously research this before you do anything. I think it would be different if you knew nothing of her hubby's status but you do know which changes things. Some lib lawyer could easily say that you knowingly gave a person possession of a firearm that would put in in reach of a felons hands.

Your right not to sell it back without seriously thinking about it.

 

[Bigum1969]

The whole possibility that this could be a straw purchase would make me say no.

 

[indyjs]

"the dishonety and outright backstabbing nature of that, how do you explain selling a firearm to someone who was just going to carry it home without a case and you called the police on them which indicates you knew they didn't have a case and they didnt have an LTCH?

Or are you saying to add on the lies by lying to the police and saying you didnt sell it to them? "


If I not not mistaken, on a FTF sale I do not have to make sure they follow the law, just that they can legally own the firearm. I would guess that the former husband was the friend and the way this is going, doesn't sound too friendly to me. I agree that is is the nuclear option. If you were pulling this on me, it would be clear that friendship has a different meaning to you than me .
Just say no and be done with it

 

[Prometheus]

Anytime you agree to "sell it back whenever you want" to a friend you run into crap like this.

WHO exactly did you enter into the agreement with? Both of them, or one of them?

As to raising the price? Anyone who says you should is a thief... at best. You agreed to sell them back "at the same price". You need to stick to that.

The only thing that would negate the sale back to him/her is their inability to purchase due to the felony (or other legal reason).

As to going thru an FFL... you are dredging up the same old FFL or no FFL or bill of sale no bill of sale arguments. Most of these ppl would say you need a FFL or BOS for mother terressa or the pope!

You bought them w/o going thru an FFL right? Sell them w/o one if you are going to sell them back. If they made you do an FFL xfer, then stick it back to them.

Screw Debs for transfers, she's out of her mind $50 is highway robbery. I like Deb, she's a good person, but whacked out of her mind on transfer fees.

This entire thing is preposterous really.

 

[Michiana]

That is no different than what a FFL does; we do our best to make sure the buyer is who he/she says they are by checking their ID and doing a background check thru NICS. If they answer all the questions correctly on the 4473 Form, look and act normal, and pass all the above they are good to go.

In a FTF the seller has an obligation to make an observation that the buyer is not drunk, high on drugs, of legal age and not suspect to being someone who probably shouldn't have a firearm. It is not a science, just common sense. In talking to a person most people can sense if something is wrong with the situation and in those cases should walk away.


There is always another buyer so it is not worth it to sell to someone you feel is not a fit person. If you KNOW for sure something smells run, don't walk away. Error towards the safe side, lawyers cost a lot of money.

 

[aikidoka]

"the dishonety and outright backstabbing nature of that, how do you explain selling a firearm to someone who was just going to carry it home without a case and you called the police on them which indicates you knew they didn't have a case and they didnt have an LTCH?

Or are you saying to add on the lies by lying to the police and saying you didnt sell it to them? "


If I not not mistaken, on a FTF sale I do not have to make sure they follow the law, just that they can legally own the firearm. I would guess that the former husband was the friend and the way this is going, doesn't sound too friendly to me. I agree that is is the nuclear option. If you were pulling this on me, it would be clear that friendship has a different meaning to you than me .
Just say no and be done with it

How convenient, you skipped over the problems with your last reply.

 

[aikidoka]

I haven't heard back from my friend but if I do, I'm not selling without proof that he is not a felon or proof that they are divorced and even with that I'll still go FFL.

I might eventually see what I can get at Deb's if my financial situation continues to deteriorate.

 

[jedi]

Well if you don't sell them back to them **BEFORE** you try Deb's how about you give us here (INGO members) a stab at it via the classified. Not sure what you have but I would like to see. =)

 

[Prometheus]

Well if you don't sell them back to them **BEFORE** you try Deb's how about you give us here (INGO members) a stab at it via the classified. Not sure what you have but I would like to see. =)

+1