Self Deception in Photographs

[Henry]

World War II: Color Photos From Nazi-Occupied Poland, 1939 ? 1940 | LIFE.com

 

[Kirk Freeman]

How are these photos self-deception?

 

[Henry]

It's a reference to the self deception of these folks, or those like folks captured in these photographs, who eventually ended up in Auschwitz, Belzec, Kulmhof, and while denying the evidence of what was happening around them. Very sad...very sad indeed.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

How are these photos self-deception?

I'm guessing because they are oblivious to what will happen to them before the Nazis leave Poland.

 

[Destro]

It's a reference to the self deception of these folks, or those like folks captured in these photographs, who eventually ended up in Auschwitz, Belzec, Kulmhof, and while denying the evidence of what was happening around them. Very sad...very sad indeed.

I see zero denial. I see the perserverence of the Jews in these pictures. They are surrounded by German devistation all around them, yet you see them trying to make the best out of a bad situation. You see smiles from those who were likely well-to-do Jews before the occupation. The evidence of the death camps was not "all around them"

 

[Overwatch]

I see zero denial. I see the perserverence of the Jews in these pictures. They are surrounded by German devistation all around them, yet you see them trying to make the best out of a bad situation. You see smiles from those who were likely well-to-do Jews before the occupation. The evidence of the death camps was not "all around them"

Without knowing of the death camps, they still chose a fate of uncertain servitude. They refused to fight for their way of life, or later, for their very lives. Those photographs represent men who allowed their children to be herded and then killed after they'd abrogated their own ability to effectively fight. Mothers who encouraged their grown children and their husbands to 'stay safe, not fight'. They allowed the Polish state to dissolve under a laughably short invasion, and then they died with smiles on their faces because they 'survived' the German army.

I admire their ability to persevere in Ghettos and squalor, but their mindset was meek existence instead of fierce defense of self and family. They accepted a poor reality over a glorious and honorable legacy. Contrast the photos in the OP's link with their own peers, like these:

We should all learn the lessons those poor souls bought and paid for.

 

[HoosierXDm]

I admire their ability to persevere in Ghettos and squalor, but their mindset was meek existence instead of fierce defense of self and family. They accepted a poor reality over a glorious and honorable legacy.



We should all learn the lessons those poor souls bought and paid for.

I take exception with the idea that they did not leave an honorable legacy. Speaking as a Jew and with part of my heritage having escaped Germany shortly after Hitler took over, I can tell you that there was nothing dishonorable about them. In fact, I would put their honor up against any other war hero. The Jews who perished were herded into the ghettos and then off to the concentration camps were told that they would be shot in the street if they did not comply. So, let me ask you this - you have young children, all of your property and weapons have been seized by the Germans. Your wife and children are having guns held to their heads as you and your family are being herded onto trains or forced to march to the ghetto. Do you put up a fight with your bare fists, knowing that they will just shoot you in the head without question, and then possibly your family, as well for the sake of this "honor" and "glory" that you say is so proud? Or do you suck it up, put on your big girl panties and swallow your pride in the hopes that being able to live one more day will be enough time for the allied forces to free you? To me, it is more honorable to do the latter. Please don't ever tell me that members of my ancestry died without honor at the hands of the Germans. What a horrible thing to say.

 

[Overwatch]

I take exception with the idea that they did not leave an honorable legacy. Speaking as a Jew and with part of my heritage having escaped Germany shortly after Hitler took over, I can tell you that there was nothing dishonorable about them. In fact, I would put their honor up against any other war hero. The Jews who perished were herded into the ghettos and then off to the concentration camps were told that they would be shot in the street if they did not comply. So, let me ask you this - you have young children, all of your property and weapons have been seized by the Germans. Your wife and children are having guns held to their heads as you and your family are being herded onto trains or forced to march to the ghetto. Do you put up a fight with your bare fists, knowing that they will just shoot you in the head without question, and then possibly your family, as well for the sake of this "honor" and "glory" that you say is so proud? Or do you suck it up, put on your big girl panties and swallow your pride in the hopes that being able to live one more day will be enough time for the allied forces to free you? To me, it is more honorable to do the latter. Please don't ever tell me that members of my ancestry died without honor at the hands of the Germans. What a horrible thing to say.

There are Jews (and Gypsys, and Slavs, etc) who fought. They made the choice to fight. They fought with whatever they had and fought to get more to fight with. They are not the people in the OP's photographs. This thread is about the persons in those photographs.

To answer your challenge, here is the pro-tip -- you don't sit in your city, waiting for someone else to fight the German Army for you. Win or lose, the outcome was the same for them. You fight. The moment, the minute, the very instant you abrogate your personal responsibility for securing your life, loved ones, and liberty; you have already lost. My heart aches for the smiling people in those photos, but that is what they did. They thought their smiles would lead them eventually out of squalor. They made a mindset choice to quit and hope. Hope is not a method; and history, at least, lets us learn something from that.

Take not offense that these photos are an example of making the wrong choice. Instead, Never Forget. Never Surrender. Never believe someone else is going to make you safe. That is the lesson in those photos.

 

[joe138]

It seems that the Jews learned from the Nazis a lesson that others have forgotten. The Jews defend Israel with a ferocity that the rest of the world doesn't seem to have. We could all learn from their example.

 

[Vigilant]

It seems that the Jews learned from the Nazis a lesson that others have forgotten. The Jews defend Israel with a ferocity that the rest of the world doesn't seem to have. We could all learn from their example.

Not the American Jewish community, they are staunchly Democratic voters. The American Jewish community for the most part has forgotten the lessons of WWII. They vote for Democrats that say we support the 2nd, BUT...this is my opinion, and mine only, based on working for several influential Jewish families over the past few years. YMMV

 

[Destro]

There are Jews (and Gypsys, and Slavs, etc) who fought. They made the choice to fight. They fought with whatever they had and fought to get more to fight with. They are not the people in the OP's photographs. This thread is about the persons in those photographs.

To answer your challenge, here is the pro-tip -- you don't sit in your city, waiting for someone else to fight the German Army for you. Win or lose, the outcome was the same for them. You fight. The moment, the minute, the very instant you abrogate your personal responsibility for securing your life, loved ones, and liberty; you have already lost. My heart aches for the smiling people in those photos, but that is what they did. They thought their smiles would lead them eventually out of squalor. They made a mindset choice to quit and hope. Hope is not a method; and history, at least, lets us learn something from that.

Take not offense that these photos are an example of making the wrong choice. Instead, Never Forget. Never Surrender. Never believe someone else is going to make you safe. That is the lesson in those photos.

That's some pretty tough talk. Perhaps they thought their efforts were futile? A thought that sadly proved true when the world turn their back on Warsaw in 1944. What's your excuse for that? Did they not fight hard enough? Were they not organized enough?

The pictures are largely women and children, in our free society, it's easy to point out options today, but when your friends and neighbors are executed on the street, going along to get along probably seemed like a good idea.

 

[ZombieApocolypse]

The pictures are largely women and children, in our free society, it's easy to point out options today, but when your friends and neighbors are executed on the street, going along to get along probably seemed like a good idea.

Unless they are Palestinian women and children, then they derserve what happens. note to self: good idea for jews to go along with nazis, bad idea for palestinians to do the same thing with hamas

 

[HeadlessRoland]

"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

 

[joe138]

Not the American Jewish community, they are staunchly Democratic voters. The American Jewish community for the most part has forgotten the lessons of WWII. They vote for Democrats that say we support the 2nd, BUT...this is my opinion, and mine only, based on working for several influential Jewish families over the past few years. YMMV

You are right as far as I can tell, I was talking about the Israelis. There are several groups that staunchly vote Democrat and that would seem in conflict with their professed ideals and values.

 

[Overwatch]

"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Exactly.

in 21st Century America, we have the blessing of hindsight. But its not just tough talk to understand what happened and vow to never let it happen to us.

I will not (and I beg you, fellow Hoosiers, to vow the same) submit to crime, submit to violence, submit to tyranny, or submit to evil. I do not have have a crystal ball, but I do know that there is evil in the world. There is evil in the United States. It can happen here. It could happen here. It may happen here. Be vigilant and understand what the man in the quote above is telling you from the past -- understand how it applies to your community, your life, your death, tyranny, governments, and social order. We have the benefit of knowing what those photos and the survivors are telling us.

 

[Phil502]

The Nazis were pretty good at keeping most of the people calm with bs stories about the better life they were going to have, telling them to mark their suitcases well with name, birthdate and town so they can get them back, all the while knowing that it would never happen and all the way to the "shower" room.

 

[JettaKnight]

How are these photos self-deception?

Found it. We all take what lessons we want from these photographs and morph them into reinforcing our own philosophical framework.



yeah INGO.

 

[KG1]

Unless they are Palestinian women and children, then they derserve what happens. note to self: good idea for jews to go along with nazis, bad idea for palestinians to do the same thing with hamas

What? Your attempt at making a parallel here frankly sucks.

 

[HoughMade]

How are these photos self-deception?

The overwhelmingly elderly men, women and children in the pictures were supposed to be holding up "Hilter Sux!" signs or flipping the bird to Nazis or they are not worthy of respect.

No one. Certainly no one here, knows what any of those people did to strive against their oppression. The fact that for a fraction of a second someone can put on a smile, does not mean they laid down and gave up.

That poor self-deceived Anne Frank. How dare she have a moment of joy in that attic...and what were they doing in the attic anyway? NOT FIGHTING, that's what. By all means, feel free to judge these people.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

It's a reference to the self deception of these folks, or those like folks captured in these photographs, who eventually ended up in Auschwitz, Belzec, Kulmhof, and while denying the evidence of what was happening around them. Very sad...very sad indeed.

I just don't understand.

1. Over half the photos feature women and children. The rest feature elderly, very elderly men mostly.

What would you have unarmed women and children do? Form hunter-killer teams and go kill the families of the local Nazi bureaucrats?

2. It is 1939-1940 the General Plan for Settlement was just underway.

3. Poland had a history of different armies rolling through it such that some villages kept multiple flags to fly given the type of uniform marching through. How could you expect those whose parents had experienced 1916 to think that 1939 would be so different?