Seizure of firearms at traffic stop

[Denny347]

matter of opinion

not working today or didn't stop at the gas station with the other guys? didn't see you this morning

Just finishing up my 3 weeks of vacation...it's good to be me

 

[MrsGungho]

Just finishing up my 3 weeks of vacation...it's good to be me

lucky bastard

 

[Rookie]

Like I said above, here we have a discrepancy between "spirit" and "letter" of the law. How do I know? I was around when they developed this law and trained on it's usage. The law should have been written better but I can assure you that traffic stops NEVER entered their minds when developing the verbiage. They were thinking of the mentally unstable or ill. Could this law AS worded apply to traffic stops? Maybe, it was never intended to do so. Either new wording or court ruling will be the only way to clarify. The fight between "letter" and "spirit" cuts both ways. People here yelling at us to follow the letter of this law will make a 180 degree turn for another law they disagree with and yell at us to follow the spirit of the law. In the end, it is difficult for us to please everyone. But hey, it's the internet.

Ok, maybe I've been quoting the wrong law that gives the officer the right to seize firearms.

As I understand your not one that typically seizes firearms unless you have a good reason, what law do you think others are going by when they do as soon as they are notified?

 

[Denny347]

Ok, maybe I've been quoting the wrong law that gives the officer the right to seize firearms.

As I understand your not one that typically seizes firearms unless you have a good reason, what law do you think others are going by when they do as soon as they are notified?

During traffic stops? No law I am aware of addresses this. I used to do this when I was a rookie and I believe it is still taught to current rookies by many of the field training officers. I believe it falls under "officer safety". While I do not generally take control of firearms of LTCH's during traffic stops, I will do so if I am called to a disturbance or other possible criminal activity involving a LTCH even if the weapon was not involved.

 

[Bunnykid68]

During traffic stops? No law I am aware of addresses this. I used to do this when I was a rookie and I believe it is still taught to current rookies by many of the field training officers. I believe it falls under "officer safety". While I do not generally take control of firearms of LTCH's during traffic stops, I will do so if I am called to a disturbance or other possible criminal activity involving a LTCH even if the weapon was not involved.

What would it take to make you the official officer trainer in this state?

 

[MrsGungho]

During traffic stops? No law I am aware of addresses this. I used to do this when I was a rookie and I believe it is still taught to current rookies by many of the field training officers. I believe it falls under "officer safety". While I do not generally take control of firearms of LTCH's during traffic stops, I will do so if I am called to a disturbance or other possible criminal activity involving a LTCH even if the weapon was not involved.

I know you will be speculating the same as everyone else, but why for "officer safety" is the firearm taken from some, not others? I have never had mine taken. I've been left in a vehicle with firearms while they took hubby out on a speeding stop. Was allowed to reach in my purse for my DL AFTER I told him there was a gun in there. He never asked about LTCH and I wasn't driving my car, so at that point and time he had no idea who I was.
Can you understand why I call BS to officer safety?

 

[MrsGungho]

What would it take to make you the official officer trainer in this state?

I don't know Denny well, the few times I have met him though he is a stand up guy. Reading what I read here, he'd be good for that job. we need him out on the streets though. Indy needs as many good officers as we can get.

 

[jeremy]

What would it take to make you the official officer trainer in this state?

The ability to shoot one trainee a Year...
-I would settle for being allowed to beat one trainee to a pulp per month though...

 

[drillsgt]

The ability to shoot one trainee a Year...
-I would settle for being allowed to beat one trainee to a pulp per month though...

That sounds like Drill Sergeant talk

 

[jeremy]

That sounds like Drill Sergeant talk

Bite your tongue...
No ****ing way I would be a Drill...

I would rather do a Combat Tour, than be a Drill...

 

[Denny347]

I know you will be speculating the same as everyone else, but why for "officer safety" is the firearm taken from some, not others? I have never had mine taken. I've been left in a vehicle with firearms while they took hubby out on a speeding stop. Was allowed to reach in my purse for my DL AFTER I told him there was a gun in there. He never asked about LTCH and I wasn't driving my car, so at that point and time he had no idea who I was.
Can you understand why I call BS to officer safety?

100% subjective. It depends on the officer. I will say that it will likely be rookies or other officers who are not familiar with firearms or those who carry them with a LTCH. Those of us with time on or those raised around guns are less likely to be asking for them during a "routine" traffic stop.

 

[Denny347]

What would it take to make you the official officer trainer in this state?

I have too much experience to do that stuff out in Plainfield. Those come from small towns PD's.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I have too much experience to do that stuff out in Plainfield. Those come from small towns PD's.

But we need someone like you teaching these new guys the ropes.

 

[jeremy]

But we need someone like you teaching these new guys the ropes.

I had a girlfriend I once taught ropes to...

 

[MrsGungho]

100% subjective. It depends on the officer. I will say that it will likely be rookies or other officers who are not familiar with firearms or those who carry them with a LTCH. Those of us with time on or those raised around guns are less likely to be asking for them during a "routine" traffic stop.

that does make sense to a point. with experience comes knowledge.
Honestly though, if you did not know me, would you let me dig in my purse after I told you there was a gun in there?

 

[Denny347]

that does make sense to a point. with experience comes knowledge.
Honestly though, if you did not know me, would you let me dig in my purse after I told you there was a gun in there?

No, if I needed your ID I'd ask you to hand the purse to me and I'd grab the wallet. Give both back to you and you can dig through the wallet for the ID, leaving the purse alone in the seat. This is the kind of stuff that is difficult to teach...thinking on your feet. We are a "large" city department that requires us to live in the city of adjacent county, 90% live in Marion County. Many, if not most, of our recruits are hired from the City. Many have NEVER seen a gun in person, let alone handle one. So it is not unusual for them to be "overly cautious" when dealing with them on the street, right or wrong.

 

[MrsGungho]

No, if I needed your ID I'd ask you to hand the purse to me and I'd grab the wallet. Give both back to you and you can dig through the wallet for the ID, leaving the purse alone in the seat. This is the kind of stuff that is difficult to teach...thinking on your feet. We are a "large" city department that requires us to live in the city of adjacent county, 90% live in Marion County. Many, if not most, of our recruits are hired from the City. Many have NEVER seen a gun in person, let alone handle one. So it is not unusual for them to be "overly cautious" when dealing with them on the street, right or wrong.

thanks for the honest answer. I was shocked when I was allowed to reach in and retrieve my ID. I knew I wasn't going to do anything wrong, but I also knew it was possible for him to see it while I dug through my purse. FTR though, this was not in Indianapolis.

 

[aikidoka]

Just finishing up my 3 weeks of vacation...it's good to be me

My current job takes 15 years to get 3 weeks of vacation. I had that after 5 years at my last job.

 

[billyboyr6]

Ok, let's throw a curve ball at this thread: what if:

I'm pulled over, and answer yes to the question "are there any weapons in the vehicle"? And answer yes to the question " do you have a LTCH"? And the officer ask me to to get out of the vehicle and I refuse saying "no I will not, and I do not concent to a search of my vehicle or seizer of my firearm. You are violating my rights. Write me my citation for what I have done and let me go on my way. My firearm has absolutely nothing to do with this traffic stop and I think it should stay where it is for both of our saftey".

Honestly to the Leo's here, what would your reply be to that. Not that im trying to be tough, or a bad a$$, but it's the truth.

 

[MikeDVB]

If they order you out of the car, you get out of the car.

But, do roll the window up and lock the doors behind you and make it clear that you do not consent to any searches of your person or your vehicle or the seizure of any of your property. Once you've done this, the only thing you should say is, "Am I being detained?" and "Am I free to go?"

Beyond that, keep your mouth shut.