school me on AR-15

[Hop Head]

Ok school me on what I need, I live on the west coast (Oregon) and am looking to build my first AR (one that is elk/deer/zombie capable and not so expensive to shoot that I need another job). Currently I do not reload so loads should be commercially available. I like the looks of the carbine with the dissipator but have heard mixed reviews about efficacy of dissipator.

I am thinking that since it is my first AR I want it to be a SHTF weapon.


BTW my brother is ex-army and hates the AR platform, he keeps chirping at me to get an AK (I plan to but after my AR build). He keeps telling me how unreliable the AR is and how his AK is far superior.

Thanks in advance.

 

[arbys1]

If by "west coast" you mean California, have fun with that. If not you'll need to start with a .308 lower to take Elk sized game. I'm not saying you can't take Elk with 5.56 6.5 6.8 & the like but more gun would be preferred method without getting into the ethics. AK's run better than AR's do dirty & I'm talkin real dirty. Prob dirtier than you would ever get it hunting Elk or Zombies. As far a the dissapator "look" your talkin bling & that's personal preference. Also check where your hunting there's usually calibers you can & can't use on certain game. Hope this helps.

 

[arbys1]

If by "west coast" you mean California, have fun with that. If not you'll need to start with a .308 lower to take Elk sized game. I'm not saying you can't take Elk with 5.56 6.5 6.8 & the like but more gun would be preferred method without getting into the ethics. AK's run better than AR's do dirty & I'm talkin real dirty. Prob dirtier than you would ever get it hunting Elk or Zombies. As far a the dissapator "look" your talkin bling & that's personal preference. Also check where your hunting there's usually calibers you can & can't use on certain game. Hope this helps.

 

[.452browning]

I'm not current with Oregon laws on firearms so I don't know of you can have standard magazines of 30 rds. Also if you want to hunt elk and such you will need something bigger than 5.56. A .308 would be good I imagine. It you want to omit the .308 for an AR platform and stick to 5.56 for HD, training, and fun I have a CMMG and am very happy with it. I currently have a 16" carbine but plan to add a 16" lightweight and 20" sniper variant. In an AR I would want a rifle that will feed all types of ammo whether it's M855 military ammo or Russian wolf or bear ammo. I would want good accuracy, variates between rounds fired. I get better groups with quality ammo. Many ar's in the market now will shoot reliably and accurately enough for practical uses. If you search for deals you can build a good AR for $600 or so. I have no experience with a .308 AR but it's on my wish list. Personally instead of investing in a .308 AR I would get a bolt rifle such as the ruger scout rifle. Get an AR for home/personal defense. The AK is an excellent weapon. It is very reliable with decent accuracy. I still claim my SAR1 will feed casings made of petrified horse **** and mud. Ammo is cheap. A personal saying of mine is " the AR is a scalpel, the AK is a machete". Do some in depth research and you will find the right tool for you.

You may find you need both and do what I did. 1 AR and 2 AK's are in my collection so far. More ar's to come

 

[sepe]

Should be fine with 30 round magazines in Oregon (unless that has changed since 2010). From what I've read, there are plenty of people that hunt elk with .223 but I'd probably want something a little bigger. I know plenty of people take deer with .308 but without knowing the terrain you'll be hunting, you don't really need that much gun (I wouldn't mind building a .458 SOCOM for deer so take that with a grain of salt).

If you want to stick with the AR platform, the DPMS .308 guns are going to start around $1000 (if you get lucky, at least from what I've seen). .308 isn't that expensive to shoot (I've got 3 or 4 in 7.62x51 and have bought some commercial .308WIN and battle packs of 7.62x51). It will be more than .223. If you don't NEED a .308, you could look into DPMS .243 (if legal for elk in Oregon) or .260. Actually, it looks like it is .24 caliber and up for elk in Oregon. .223 is fine for deer, bear, pronghorn, cougar, and squirrels. You might either need to go with a larger caliber AR or get an AR in .223 AND something else for elk.

If you want to stay with .223, you could easily pick up a decent rifle for under $700 (I actually just ordered this kit last night 16'' Hammer Forged Mid-Length Mock Dissipator Rifle Kit - Rifle Kits - AR-15 and I'll have a little over $800 total including the lower receiver and a Magpul rear backup sight).

If you have a budget, you'll be able to help everyone out quite a bit in pointing you in the right direction. You'll get people telling you to get something on the lowest end and on the highest end.

As far as the AK being far superior, they'd handle being submerged in mud and crap a little better but since it won't be a battle rifle and you won't be in conditions like in the sandbox...the AR platform will hold up to hunting. ARs are suppose to be more accurate.

If you're intent on building the AR, I would look at the rifle kit in the link above. You'll need a lower receiver and Palmetto State often has lowers marked down from $79.99 to $49.99. Like I said before, for that rifle with a backup sight you'll be looking at a bit over $800 but the specs are right up there with some higher dollar rifles.

As far as mock dissipators having any issues, I haven't read that. A mid length gas tube on the mock dissipators are fine. The issues I've read about came from cutting a 20" barrel with a rifle length tube down to 16". I believe it caused timing issues.

 

[LPMan59]

Ok school me on what I need, I live on the west coast (Oregon) and am looking to build my first AR (one that is elk/deer/zombie capable and not so expensive to shoot that I need another job). Currently I do not reload so loads should be commercially available. I like the looks of the carbine with the dissipator but have heard mixed reviews about efficacy of dissipator.

I am thinking that since it is my first AR I want it to be a SHTF weapon.


BTW my brother is ex-army and hates the AR platform, he keeps chirping at me to get an AK (I plan to but after my AR build). He keeps telling me how unreliable the AR is and how his AK is far superior.

Thanks in advance.

if you want a SHTF AR in 5.56, buy a Colt, DD, BCM, LMT, Noveske

 

[Mgderf]

I'd go .308

I've heard of people taking deer (white-tail) with a .22Lr too, but I would not suggest it.
.223 just doesn't seem to me to be enough punch to effectively take an elk.

I could be wrong, YMMV, but I would personally NOT choose a .223 for elk hunting, unless maybe my life depended on it.

 

[figley]

This would be a good place to start:

Oregon

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

Heh, I remember when my mom found my first AR (I lived at home into my 20's a bit) and my dad commented "you wouldn't even hunt deer with that", to which I replied, "no, it wouldn't be big enough." I wouldn't hunt anything bigger than varmints, hippies or communists with 5.56; 7.62x51 (.308) is the ticket for anything bigger than a yote if you want it to actually die.

 

[Yeah]

Stocked with the right bullets a 223 Rem is plenty for Elk, which have large vitals not protected by much of anything. In an AR that would be a 62 TSX, although I've seen them downed by less.

You shouldn't be using it against them in Oregon though, as the state specifies an Elk minimum of 6mm.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So you want general guidelines? I've never shot an elk but here's what I'd go with:

1. Light weight. You want the weapon light and handy. Lightweight barrel.

2. You want a standard militree trigger, no match nonsense.

3. You may want a light on it or have it ready to mount a light.

4. Sling. One points are for mall ninjas, you want a carry strap as it is more utilitarian. If you get a one point, understand what it is you will be doing with it (zombies, you'll be running a lot, so get the two point).

5. Grip. You want a grip that fills in the gap. I like the Duck Bill and the Tango Down grip.

I have Katanas and guns like the Katana. It is how I was trained and the guns reflect that teaching.

All that crap that the mall ninjys debate--stocks, optics, lasers, phasers--is nonsense, UNLESS it solves a problem for you.

Find out what you like, buy multiple copies. Get lots of mags, ammo, and solid support gear. There are threads on all that at INGO.

 

[armedindy]

from what you said...get an sks...or ak

 

[Hop Head]

Ha, thanks everyone. I think that the real answer is to build a couple. It sounds like I defiantly need a .308 to hunt elk, but the .223 would be suitable for playing and learning the AR platform. The .458 SOCOM is the dream, but until I start reloading don't see that one coming soon.
A few more questions:
1) what would be the best twist 1/7 or 1/9?
2) chrome lined or not on the barrel?
3) would a light barrel be sufficient or should I go heavier.

 

[Chase515]

A few more questions:
1) what would be the best twist 1/7 or 1/9?
1/9 because it stabalizes a wider range of bullets light to heavy. 1/7 is for heavier rounds and with heavier rounds they are more accurate at longer distances.
2) chrome lined or not on the barrel?
Its up to you on that one also. What can you afford and go from there. Chrome lined is suppose to last longer, non chrome lined is supposidly more accurate. The chromemoly and stainless barrels I have are awesome.
3) would a light barrel be sufficient or should I go heavier.[/QUOTE]
Neither. Light weight barrels heat up faster when shooting zombies and lose accuracy. Heavy weight barrels suck ass to carry around. Standard M4 barrels are in the middle of the road because they are a better option.

 

[shooter521]

You want to shoot an elk with a .223 carbine?

 

[sepe]

You want to shoot an elk with a .223 carbine?

It is legal in some states and people do it for close up shots. I wouldn't want to. Not sure I'd be all that willing to take a decent sized bear with .223 either.

 

[Yeah]

Bullets are the deciding factor and relegate the cartage to little more than a logistical decision driven by the rifle's constraints. Which is why someone starting with a clean slate and an eye toward spot and stalk ungulate hunting would be silly to end up with anything chambered 308 Win.

As for the questions, and if you refer to an AR:
1) 7" is a default because most high end barrels are 7". 9" offers no advantages.
2) I pick stainless, in part because they don't chrome the exterior of CM barrels.
3) Light is right. Heavy profiles on anything other than fixed position rifles are concessions.

 

[mrfjones]

You might just build an extra upper in 6.5 grendel. I am looking at that setup but for different purposes. You can practice with 5.56 and then have something with a little more power in the same package, with the same trigger pull.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Heavy profiles on anything other than fixed position rifles are concessions.

Yeah, but most people only carry it from the car to the firing line.

If it is a zombie rifle, that means you anticipate using it for real, not just for show at the range. For real means having it your hands humping, not in the range bag in your car.

Rick Staples, instructor at Thunder Ranch and cop from Kansas, had to hold someone at gunpoint for 45 minutes. Start with 45 minutes and see how the heavy barrel works.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

I have ARs for dumping 30rd mags of 5.56 on close/plentiful targets. For bigger or more distant targets, I have other stuff. You can definitely buy/build uppers in different calibers that'll knock the snot out of things. Haven't fired one, but from what I've read the 6.5 Grendel puts its foot up things' butts. The uppers can be swapped in seconds. That's one place the AR platform really shines.