SAR1 cycling problem

[__Doc_]

Went to test fire the SAR1 and it will only cycle one at a time and then the bolt locks back. I can pull the bolt back and release it and it will chamber the next round, but once it fires that round its back to lock up.
It cycles pretty easily by hand, but it feels a little tight when it wants to move across the hammer. I will tell you it has a red star trigger in it that im not 100% sure about. Im going to test with the original trigger tomorrow, but I wanted to see if I could get a few suggestions on this first.

Any ideas on this?



pic related. its where the bolt stays locked back and the ammo im using

 

[vitamink]

It is strange that the bolt stays locked back. Your idea of switching the trigger group out is pretty much what i would have suggested. If you look at an AK hammer and the bottom of an AK bolt carrier, they look like 2 trapezoids that slam into each other as the bolt cycles. In extreme cases where the angles are new (as in your new trigger) and not enough lubrication, the bolt can stick. If you're set on using that trigger, you may need to polish out the hard angles, and do the same to the bolt. Get some good lube like slip 2000 and it should run like a champion.

Original

Polished

Note that there are no hard angles on the polished version.

Original

Polished

Again note that the hard angles are completely knocked down.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Have you tried a different magazine? I'd guess that or the trigger group. The original trigger sucks, be forewarned that it will likely have trigger slap badly.

I put a Tapco trigger in mine and it makes it a new gun, highly suggested.

That ammo is Barnual, which is a quality Russian ammo that I don't believe is imported any longer. I've still got about 500 rounds of it and I hate to burn through it, it doesn't have that Wolf stink of urine and communism when you shoot it.

 

[indykid]

Silly question, but is the hammer axis pin in correctly? Hard to tell from the picture but the hammer pin doesn't look like it is all the way into the right side of the receiver.

And it could also be lighting.

 

[92LX]

I've seen this before. On my SAR-2 a WAY out of spec top cover forced the bolt down when it cycled locking it back. Can you hang the bolt back without the top cover installed? If not, I'd get a new top cover. (I had the same bind over the trigger with both the stock and Red Star Trigger)

On mine it was top cover installed = almost single shot. Top cover off, worked.

I put on a replacement cover, polished the bolt carrier, and it ran like a champ.

It also may be a slightly mis-aligned receiver or gas block or top cover. I've seen a SAR-1 and a couple of SAR-2s that if pull you pulled the bolt back slowly will hold the bolt open. Oven without the top cover installed.

The also usually wear one side of the carrier at the gas block. Check for witness marks on the carrier just aft of the gas piston (near the pin) where it cycles through the gas block.

This would indicate a cocked gas block. Second and less likely is mis-aligned or bent receiver coming out of the highly paid and highly skilled Romanian gun factories.

I have noticed that quality went down with each series of Romanian rifles. CUR>SAR>WASR

The Red Star Arms trigger group is pretty high quality. I put one in to solve a major trigger slap issue on my SAR-2. It is better than most single stage AR triggers. I think it was overshadowed by the TAPCO G2 trigger which is nearly as good but much cheaper.

I highly doubt it the mags or the ammo.

The machining on these leaves an extremely rough surface finish as well. This does contribute to possible sticking.

Try the top cover and let us know.

 

[__Doc_]

These are all excellent suggestions and I will look into them all.

On the note of the trigger. The FCG came out of the SAR3 (pictured above SAR1) -- I know red star makes a FCG specifically for the SAR3. I'm not 100% sure if this FCG is the universal FCG or the SAR3 specific one. That is why I suspect the FCG. I also had to use the selector from the SAR3 in conjunction with the FCG from the SAR3 when I put it in the SAR1. The selector that stopped the trigger from moving was too long and the shorter from the SAR3 worked fine. The SAR1 and SAR3 hammers looked different, I dont know if that is a problem.
I'm not 100% sold on the red star adjustable trigger for an AK. I feel like the AK works because its bare bones, adding set screws and **** to the trigger seems like it would just cause unneeded problems. I am going to buy an upgraded FCG, it maybe standard G2 or just something else non adjustable.

I dont see any wear marks on the top cover, but I will try it with the cover off and see if it does it. The BCG/piston do have a lot of play in them when you pull it back.

Here is a quick picture i took while I was cleaning it first. There is some wear on the top of the bolt. I'm not an AK guy, so I don't know the usual wear patterns.

todays goal

no top cover
check trigger
possibly set old trigger back in to see if problem still exists

I appreciate all the replies

 

[40calPUNISHER]

Is the bolt carrier jumping off the rails as it cycles back? If so, throw in a Blackjack bolt buffer.

 

[__Doc_]

If you pull too far back it does want to twist and jump off the rails, yes
by too far back, I dont mean far enough when you disassemble

 

[indykid]

The hammer for the SAR-3 has a different profile than any other AK/AKM/AK-74 hammer because the SAR-3 bolt is shorter than the standard AKM bolt. Because of this the hammer has to travel further to strike the SAR-3 bolt, which requires the striking face to be a different angle than the standard hammer.

Using a standard hammer in an SAR-3 can and usually will damage the bolt, which is almost impossible to replace. To be honest, I don't know what a hammer from an SAR-3 will do if used in an SAR-1, but I am guessing working correctly might be a problem.

I use a Blackjack buffer in all my AK/AKM and variation shooters. The bolt/carrier can and does strike the rear trunion, and does leave witness marks on it. Whether that is detrimental to the firearm, I don't know but because but I don't have a personal armorer to repair the rifle free as in the military, having the buffer to keep the bolt/carrier from hitting the rear of the receiver is worth it.

Short, was the SAR-3 hammer in the SAR-1?

 

[sporter]

The old Century Arms trigger groups leave a lot to be desired.

Definitely change it out for a Tapco G2 kit and add a good wire retainer or plate.

Problem solved, no need to polish anything.

 

[92LX]

T
On the note of the trigger. The FCG came out of the SAR3 (pictured above SAR1) -- I know red star makes a FCG specifically for the SAR3. I'm not 100% sure if this FCG is the universal FCG or the SAR3 specific one. That is why I suspect the FCG. I also had to use the selector from the SAR3 in conjunction with the FCG from the SAR3 when I put it in the SAR1. The selector that stopped the trigger from moving was too long and the shorter from the SAR3 worked fine. The SAR1 and SAR3 hammers looked different, I dont know if that is a problem.

Had I know that, my first response would have been slightly different. I would definately get a G2 trigger group in there and get the SAR-3 parts back on a SAR-3.

 

[__Doc_]

Short, was the SAR-3 hammer in the SAR-1?

yeah. I moved all the parts over from SAR3 to SAR1. Hammer, trigger, spring, hammer pin, trigger pin, retaining plate.

Ive only fired 3 rounds, so im not worried about damaging the bolt. I have the old FCG back into it and im going to fire tomorrow.

I guess some trial and error is in order. I will look into those buffers though

 

[Tombs]

This is typically an issue that plagues all the parts kit AKs...

Anything from out of spec rails, dust cover, trigger components, magazine shelf, or the whole receiver in general.

If it's minor, it's usually just the hammer, anything serious is usually a combination of all those things, and you'll need to take steps to find all of the friction points and relieve them as much as possible.

It also sounds like the bolt is being allowed to move far enough rearward to try to come out of the disassembly notches. A buffer would naturally be a good idea then, preferably a fairly hard one.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

STAY OUT OF MY HEAD!!!!!!!!

Yeah, this post was incorporated into some odd dream I had last night. I found the factory trigger from my SAR-1 and shoved in my pocket to give to the OP in this thread once the airplane got where it was going. Yeah, I don't know either.

 

[__Doc_]

LMAO at the above post. WTH man!

problem solved. the trigger in the SAR3 will not work. I put the original trigger back into SAR1 and it worked fine. Now that my trigger finger is still hurting from the trigger slap im looking for new FCG

I appreciate everyone that put in some suggestions. I am doing as suggested by others

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Go with the Tapco. Its very smooth and no trigger slip. Easy to install, too.

Seriously, I hated my SAR-1 with the factory trigger. I was seriously considering selling it off, but then I put in the Tapco and its awesome.

How you look at your SAR-1 after shooting with a factory trigger:

Now, with the Tapco:

 

[indykid]

Actually the trigger that came installed in the SAR-1 was not the factory trigger. It was a set made by or for Century to bring the rifle into compliance with the sporting purpose clause of the new ATF second amendment.

Easy trigger slap fix. With the bolt carrier out of the rifle, look at the part of the trigger that is between the two arms that the hammer spring rest on. You should see a shiny spot where the disconnector is hitting that trigger crossbar.

Take the disconnector out, and with a dremel remove a little metal in the area that hits the now shiny part of the trigger. Some people just cut the tail off the disconnector, but I found that if you take some metal off the bottom of the disconnector where it hits the trigger, you will find the slap gone.

Trigger slap is caused by the bolt going back on recoil and pressing the disconnector down and into the part of the trigger between the arms that the hammer spring rest on. The resulting hit slaps the trigger forward with great force, which is what your finger feels.