Saiga 12 conversion

[kadetklapp]

The wife just bought a Saiga 12 from our local Big R. I'd like to see it be properly converted to it's original configuration. I'll be honest, I don't have the technical know-how or firearm repair knowledge to do this without fudging it up. I called darrels in Cuyuga and he says it's not something he does or knows how to do. Anyone in central-Indiana do this?

 

[jason conley]

There was one but I can't remember name they made the wraithmaker drum for the saiga so look up wraithmaker online and maybe that will get you somewere.

 

[shooter521]

look up wraithmaker online and maybe that will get you somewere.

Nowhere you'd want to be, trust me...

The OP's best bet is sending the gun out to someone who specializes in that sort of thing. Red Jacket in Louisiana or InRange in TN come immediately to mind.

 

[rhino]

What is the current configuration?
What is the original configuration?

 

[jason conley]

Alliant armament was what I found. Shooter 521 be more specific, have you heard bad things about alliant because I have thought about doing this also.

 

[kadetklapp]

I'm not very comfortable shipping firearms. I'm wanting to send it to someone local who can meet up with me.

 

[babolat69]

Are you sure you dont want to try it yourself? I just finished my conversion using "normal" tools and it must have taken no more than 4 hours all together. You just have to plan on ordering all the right parts first and then start the modification. Its actually pretty easy and I highly recommend it.

From this:

To this:

I can eventually help you out if you go this route.

 

[shooter521]

have you heard bad things about alliant

In a word, yes. They're a sh*t company putting out a sh*t product. Do some homework on forum.Saiga-12.com and you'll get the complete story.

 

[kadetklapp]

Are you sure you dont want to try it yourself? I just finished my conversion using "normal" tools and it must have taken no more than 4 hours all together. You just have to plan on ordering all the right parts first and then start the modification. Its actually pretty easy and I highly recommend it.

From this:

To this:

I can eventually help you out if you go this route.

Well, I understand there is some rivet cutting and some welding and refinishing?

Not something I want to do to a brand-new gun. I'd at least like some guidance thruout the process. I'm also trying to find an all-inclusive parts list.

 

[babolat69]

I hear ya. It took me some time to actually get up and do it. The conversion does require cutting rivets (actually grinding them down) and some refinish as the receiver under the trigger plate that you remove is not finished. I have heard of people welding the old trigger holes but I just used plastic hole plugs that look just like rivets.

I did go the cheap and simple route as I did not want to go crazy over spending or getting over complicated on the project. I think all the parts must have come to about $170. This is not bad if you consider some companies will charge close to $500 or more to convert. Off the top of my head, this is what I used:
Tromix trigger (Its a Tapco with some mods for the S12)
Tapco saw grip
Tapco fixed stock (very small in my opinion, would look for a larger model)
Tapco retaining plate
Tromix trigger guard (bolts right on with no need to cut receiver for PG)
Black Engine paint (to refinish bottom of receiver)
4 hole plugs (3/16)
Dremmel grinding stones
Drill bit

There are some great resources online that I could point you to if you decide to do it yourself.

 

[kungfupipe]

go to mississippiautoarms.com for your conversion parts, thats where i got mine. they will even have a conversion patrs list to help keep you 922 compliant. let me tell you that i am seriously mechanically retarded, but with the right parts and basic tools ( and a little help from youtube.com) i managed to do my saiga 12 myself. i gotta tell you it was pretty rewarding when i was finished, it has even made me want to buy another saiga 12 and mix it up a little bit. there are alot of options now that were not avaialable 1 or 2 years ago. also check out chaosusa.com good luck!

 

[emclean]

you can also get an ACE stock that will give you a pistol grip, with out modifying anything.
ACE LTD. USA

 

[kadetklapp]

Well you guys have all but convinced me. In looking at the weapon, it does appear pretty easy. My main concern is that I'll harm the firearm or it's finish.

I have a shiny new Dremel tool, but what exactly, will I need to get in terms of bits to do the job quickly and correctly?

Does black engine paint do a good job at rust protection and does it have to be reapplied constantly?

I'll do this sometime this summer.

 

[Truckerman79]

Bumping so kadetklapp can get an answer to the above questions. I'm very interested in this thread. Thanks Britton for pointing this thread out to me today.

 

[babolat69]

S12 conversion

For the dremmel, you only need to get a couple of grinding wheels to grind off the heads of the rivets. I had also bought some cutting wheels thinking I would need to cut the square hole for the pistol grip but ended up getting the Tromix triger guard so no cutting was needed.

I applied the engine paint but have no long term experience with it so not sure on how long it will last. It ended up being a little more flat than the original finish but since its on the bottom it really isnt noticeable.

 

[sig1473]

Dinzag

As for parts for the Saiga, look into Dinzag. He has a lot of parts for Saigas. I have a converted Saiga in 7.62x39. It has the engine paint on it. It seems to hold up fine, but it kind of starting to flake on my gas tube. It is an milsurp tube, so that might be an issue. Definitely do it yourself. Once you get it done and see how easy it is you will want to do another one. It becomes an addiction

 

[Fastmover]

Not to hijack this thread, but I'm also a new proud owner of a Saiga 12. I'm looking at getting it 922 compliant to enjoy the larger mags/drums.
However I'm still not 100% convinced a full conversion is needed. From what I understand replacing the magazine counts for 3 parts. Thus one would only need to swap one more additional part to be compliant. If I just swapped the stock to the Tapco collapsible stock with pistol grip and used US made magazines I would be compliant right?

I took a look at the Saiga forum, but the normal consensus there is to go with a full conversion and I'm not sold on that atm. Granted I haven't shot the Saiga yet, so I can't tell if I'll hate the trigger set up.

Any opinions or suggestions on what I should do?

 

[shooter521]

I'm looking at getting it 922 compliant to enjoy the larger mags/drums.

If your mags are US-made, that may be all the 922(r) compliance you need. Per ATF, a stock Saiga-12 with no muzzle device (plain barrel) only has 13 "countable" foreign parts, so you'd only have to swap in 3 US-made parts to be compliant, and a US-made magazine would give you that many (body, follower and floorplate). A stock Saiga-12 with a threaded muzzle would have 14 countable parts, so you'd need to swap in one US part in addition to the magazine to be compliant.

If I just swapped the stock to the Tapco collapsible stock with pistol grip and used US made magazines I would be compliant right?

Yes.

However I'm still not 100% convinced a full conversion is needed.

Any opinions or suggestions on what I should do?

IMO, the real benefit of the full conversion isn't as much about 922(r) compliance as it is about improving the ergonomics and handling of the weapon. Converting your Saiga to an AK pattern allows you to use AK trigger groups (including the TAPCO G2 and excellent RSA adjustable), as well as any AK stock out there (fixed, folder, AR type, etc). It also moves the pistol grip and trigger forward, which allows the shooter to square up better behind the gun and allows an easier reach to the forearm with the support hand. Plus, it allows you a better selection of better quality parts. TAPCO's stock/PG kit is OK for "quick and dirty" compliance, but their stuff doesn't have a real good reputation for holding up to serious/hard/long-term use.

Do the full conversion; you won't regret it. I shot my first S-12 in both configurations, and the difference is literally night and day. Based on that experience, my second S-12 went straight from the gunshop to the 'smith...

 

[Fastmover]

Yeah I have a threaded muzzle on mine, so I would have to change another part to be compliant. I guess I could swap the gas puck as a quick fix, but where's the fun in that? lol

As for a full conversion, are their any recommended smiths to do the work? I know there are kits for the DIYers out there, but I'd feel better having a gunsmith work on it.
Local is preferable as I'm not too keen on shipping a firearm to an unknown entity.

 

[shooter521]

I guess I could swap the gas puck as a quick fix, but where's the fun in that?

Or you could add a US-made railed forearm (DPH/Chaos/Tapco/etc).

As for a full conversion, are their any recommended smiths to do the work? Local is preferable as I'm not too keen on shipping a firearm to an unknown entity.

Yes, but I'm not aware of any that are local. Will @ Red Jacket Firearms in Louisiana is widely regarded as "the man" when it comes to Saiga conversions (i.e. hardly an "unknown entity"), although pretty much any AK smith could do that kind of work with his eyes closed.

Your best bet may be to pick up one of the DIY kits and partner up with a fellow INGO'er who has been down that road before to help you out. It would be cheap, you'd get to meet a fellow forum member, and you'd have the pride of ownership knowing "I made this".