Russia vs. Ukraine Part 2

[BigMoose]

Why is Chernobyl so important to the Russians as they invade Ukraine?

Ukraine's government, anonymous Russian military sources and experts have all posited different explanations for why Russia captured the infamous Chernobyl nuclear power plant as part of Moscow's invasion of its neighbour.

www.abc.net.au

Found this article. It doesn't really make any sense as to why Putin went there.
So why go there in the first place?

Look at the map, you pretty much have to go through there if your headed down the west bank of the river to Kyiv.

 

[rhamersley]

It’s probably just posturing. 4700 light infantry wouldn’t make much of a difference in a mechanized conflict like Ukraine. It also would likely give the Russian troops more reason to fight. It would be a huge mistake to put US boots on the ground in that conflict IMO.

You might be right. This is a different story than the one I read last night, that one it appeared that the 101st was just one of the US outfits practicing there, not the only one. Still not incredibly tension easing...

 

[BigMoose]

It’s probably just posturing. 4700 light infantry probably wouldn’t make much of a difference in a mechanized conflict like Ukraine. It also would likely give the Russian troops more reason to fight. It would be a huge mistake to put US boots on the ground in that conflict IMO.

We are moving into an interesting age.

If nuclear weapons cease to be a credible threat, because no one dares us them. (Ether because of MAD, backlash from using them, the mess just one makes, etc)

We are going to get to a point where, no one living has seen an above ground nuke set off as a test, let alone ether 2 that were used in anger.

Because of this we may be moving towards a time where we might again see a totaly unrestricted conventional war happen, certainly we are seeing it now with a nuclear power against a non one. As for two nuclear equipped powers? Happened recently. China and India got into some light skirmishes in 2020 and 2021.

All this points to the fact that having a conventional capability is more important then ever. Something Russia seems to have neglected, (perhaps though through Russian corruption).

It is still not a good idea, would give the Russkies something to fight for..

 

[DadSmith]

We are moving into an interesting age.

If nuclear weapons cease to be a credible threat, because no one dares us them. (Ether because of MAD, backlash from using them, the mess just one makes, etc)

We are going to get to a point where, no one living has seen an above ground nuke set off as a test, let alone ether 2 that were used in anger.

Because of this we may be moving towards a time where we might again see a totaly unrestricted conventional war happen, certainly we are seeing it now with a nuclear power against a non one. As for two nuclear equipped powers? Happened recently. China and India got into some light skirmishes in 2020 and 2021.

All this points to the fact that having a conventional capability is more important then ever. Something Russia seems to have neglected, (perhaps though through Russian corruption).

I'm sure Russia has already did a study on the impact of using nuclear weapons and feel it is worth using.
They also are relying on weak western leadership and I believe if Russia did use nuclear weapons on Ukraine all that would happen from the west would be to rebuke them, and beg that they don't use them on us. That's the state of our current leadership not only here but NATO countries also.

 

[Leadeye]

I just don't see the use of a dirty bomb in Ukraine, the Russians can achieve essentially the same results with chemical weapons. Persistent agents like VX will contaminate an area to deny it's use, and I doubt the Ukraine army will be any more prepared for that than they will be Cobalt 60 in a dirty bomb. I see dirty bombs as something terrorists use.

 

[rhamersley]

I just don't see the use of a dirty bomb in Ukraine, the Russians can achieve essentially the same results with chemical weapons. Persistent agents like VX will contaminate an area to deny it's use, and I doubt the Ukraine army will be any more prepared for that than they will be Cobalt 60 in a dirty bomb. I see dirty bombs as something terrorists use.

I may be wrong, but I thought this discussion was a dirty bomb made to look like the Ukrainians made and used it in Russian territory as a precursor for sending tactical nuclear weapons into Ukraine. Russia doesn't need to use an unsophisticated weapon, but need a "trigger" (false flag, so to speak) to justify their use of the big boys.

 

[Leadeye]

I may be wrong, but I thought this discussion was a dirty bomb made to look like the Ukrainians made and used it in Russian territory as a precursor for sending tactical nuclear weapons into Ukraine. Russia doesn't need to use an unsophisticated weapon, but need a "trigger" (false flag, so to speak) to justify their use of the big boys.

So framing the picture as Ukraine terrorists?

 

[rhamersley]

So framing the picture as Ukraine terrorists?

Yes, I think that was what was brought up upthread a ways. Russia needing justification to send in the nukes.

 

[DadSmith]

I just don't see the use of a dirty bomb in Ukraine, the Russians can achieve essentially the same results with chemical weapons. Persistent agents like VX will contaminate an area to deny it's use, and I doubt the Ukraine army will be any more prepared for that than they will be Cobalt 60 in a dirty bomb. I see dirty bombs as something terrorists use.

No they are not talking about Russia using a dirty bomb in Ukraine rather Ukraine using a dirty bomb in Russia.

 

[Ark]

Russia spent a decade fighting in Afghanistan, I highly doubt they're going to give up and start slinging nukes in less than a year.

They're trashing Ukrainian infrastructure and winter is almost here. Russia has unlimited fuel and supplies, Ukraine does not.

 

[Route 45]

Russia spent a decade fighting in Afghanistan, I highly doubt they're going to give up and start slinging nukes in less than a year.

It matters not what "Russia" did in the past. What will Putin do?

They're trashing Ukrainian infrastructure and winter is almost here. Russia has unlimited fuel and supplies, Ukraine does not.

That's why they are begging North Korea for ammuntion and fielding WWII era weaponry and 60 year old conscripts.

 

[Ark]

It matters not what "Russia" did in the past. What will Putin do?


That's why they are begging North Korea for ammuntion and fielding WWII era weaponry and 60 year old conscripts.

"doesn't matter what Russia did in the past"

"Russia is doing exactly what they've done in the past "

 

[smokingman]

IAEA(UN "observers") are investigating the Russian claim Ukraine will use a dirty bomb.

The fact that they do not trust the information which was provided by the Russian side does not mean that the threat of the use of such a dirty bomb ceases to exist. The threat is present. This information was brought to the attention of the [Russian] defense minister's interlocutors. It's up to them whether they want to believe it or not," Peskov told journalists in a briefing Monday.

Given some of the Russian allegations were specific in terms of citing locations, the IAEA team which is now expected to deploy to Ukraine is likely to inspect some of the said sites:

 

[BugI02]

It would be a huge mistake to put US boots on the ground in that conflict IMO.

But we have a veritable foreign policy mistake machine as our figurehead of a president, and no good idea what the agenda of his handlers is

 

[Route 45]

"doesn't matter what Russia did in the past"

"Russia is doing exactly what they've done in the past "

Germany never exterminated Jews, until Adolph showed up. The direction of a nation is largely dependent upon its leader, especially in a quasi-dicatorship. Your comparison with Afghanistan is irrelevant. Nations don't "do" things. Leaders of nations do things. Putin is the wild card here.

 

[DadSmith]

 

[Wolfhound]

I have to wonder why a nation would even consider using a dirty bomb against another nation in possession of thousands of nuclear weapons. To me, it doesn’t make sense.

 

[asevans]

Russia says Ukraine could set off a low yield nuke (dirty bomb) and blame it on Russia. To garner more western support.

 

[Wolfhound]

Russia says Ukraine could set off a low yield nuke (dirty bomb) and blame it on Russia. To garner more western support.

Ok that’s a different angle. So…..Russia thinks Ukraine would irradiate its own territory to gain more support.

 

[asevans]

Russia claims Ukraine 'dirty bomb' in final stages - Insider Paper

Moscow said Monday that Ukraine had nearly completed building a "dirty bomb," after Russia's defence minister in calls with NATO.

insiderpaper.com