Ron Paul Tent at OWS Too Funny Not to Share

[steveh_131]

Supports what conclusion? It doesn't even support your conclusion.

See:

Obviously this isn't conclusive, but I would say it points to a larger portion of non-communists than 1%.

 

[88GT]

Nope, definitely didn't say that. I argued that it is false that they are all flea-party communists fighting the bourgeois. No group that large is homogeneous. Its ridiculous to argue otherwise.

And in doing so attempted to legitimize the entire effort.

Face it, the majority of the participants ARE statists who oppose everything you stand for. Why you insist on defending them is beyond me, particularly in light of the fact that you use your worst venom for those who agree with you in principle and differ only in the details.

 

[CarmelHP]

See:

I already said it doesn't support your conclusion. If you can't tell how a selection of respondents was made, a confidence interval or anything about the methodology and have only a set of percentages attached to ambiguous questions open to interpretation (are 51% dissatisfied with Obama because he hasn't declared a People's Democratic Republic yet, or what). C,mon, you should be better than arguing that this nonsense poll shows anything other than your incredibly subjective interpretation.

 

[steveh_131]

And in doing so attempted to legitimize the entire effort.

Face it, the majority of the participants ARE statists who oppose everything you stand for. Why you insist on defending them is beyond me, particularly in light of the fact that you use your worst venom for those who agree with you in principle and differ only in the details.

Who is "Them"? Some people are there to protest corporate/government corruption and corporate welfare. This is a valid complaint. Some are there to promote communism and I disagree entirely.

I just think it's intellectually dishonest to lump the whole group together under one ideology or act like they're all a bunch of unemployed savages. Just like it was wrong for the left to act like the Tea Party was a bunch of hillbillies and greedy rich people.

I already said it doesn't support your conclusion. If you can't tell how a selection of respondents was made, a confidence interval or anything about the methodology and have only a set of percentages attached to ambiguous questions open to interpretation (are 51% dissatisfied with Obama because he hasn't declared a People's Democratic Republic yet, or what). C,mon, you should be better than arguing that this nonsense poll shows anything other than your incredibly subjective interpretation.

23 and 26 were pretty clear questions. If anything, he biased his research towards making them look more communist, since that was his final conclusion.

But you're right, we don't know enough. Please provide us with the methodology you used to arrive at your 99%/1% numbers and we can compare.

 

[CarmelHP]

Who is "Them"? Some people are there to protest corporate/government corruption and corporate welfare. This is a valid complaint. Some are there to promote communism and I disagree entirely.

I just think it's intellectually dishonest to lump the whole group together under one ideology or act like they're all a bunch of unemployed savages. Just like it was wrong for the left to act like the Tea Party was a bunch of hillbillies and greedy rich people.



23 and 26 were pretty clear questions. If anything, he biased his research towards making them look more communist, since that was his final conclusion.

But you're right, we don't know enough. Please provide us with the methodology you used to arrive at your 99%/1% numbers and we can compare.

I had 70 trained researchers assign numbers to each OWS protestor at all reported protest sites. We then randomly selected from the pool of numbers a sample size calculated to give a confidence level of +/- 3% and contacted those protestors that had been assigned those numbers. All agreed to participate for the payment of 1 ounce of a unnamed controlled substance and a copy of Das Kapital. We then explained our binary response question and what each response meant. The results were:

Are you a commie?
99% Yes
1% Don't know.

QED

(I suppose you could argue that up to 4% are within the margin of error, which would seem to be enough to satisfy your fanatical pedantry.)

 

[88GT]

Who is "Them"? Some people are there to protest corporate/government corruption and corporate welfare. This is a valid complaint. Some are there to promote communism and I disagree entirely.

I just think it's intellectually dishonest to lump the whole group together under one ideology or act like they're all a bunch of unemployed savages. Just like it was wrong for the left to act like the Tea Party was a bunch of hillbillies and greedy rich people.

Sunuvabeach. We've been over this already a thousand times. They're only opposition to corporate greed and congressional bailouts is because they weren't on the receiving end of them. They'll wag their fingers in your face as they rant about crony capitalism and then turn around in the same breath and spout off about how the government should be paying for more things.

Congress wasn't wrong for bailing out private companies. Congress was wrong for bailing out institutions of capitalism and free markets. Is that a legitimate position in your mind?

I'm not lumping all of them together. They've done that for me. The purpose of OWS is to further progressive policies. Anybody who chooses to use this forum ( the OWS protests) necessarily hitches his wagon to that star. If his message or purpose doesn't line up with the vehicle he's using to peddle it, maybe he should be choosing a better vehicle.

 

[rambone]

And in doing so attempted to legitimize the entire effort.

What is the criteria for being considered a legitimate effort?

Face it, the majority of the participants ARE statists who oppose everything you stand for.

Every group has their statist contingent, including right here. There are some things that I see from these protests that I support, as well as disagree with... similar to this forum. So I would give them the same courtesy as I would give to this community. There is a vast difference of opinions between this group of seemingly similar people.

The best thing I can say is to avoid collectivist group-think. Individuals did some stupid things, and the guilt lies on individuals for doing it. The vast majority of the individual participants have not done anything wrong. So to demonize the group over a few people doing inappropriate things in inappropriate places is similar to demonizing all gun owners over the tens of thousands of gun crimes that occur in the U.S. every year. Its a faulty way to look at people. I've fallen for it in the past but I'm doing my best to not fall for it again.

Why you insist on defending them is beyond me,

1.) Some of them are protesting some real issues that I agree with.
2.) They are getting up and doing something about it.
3.) I'm certainly not going to cheer for government agents to come stomp them all down with riot gear.

4.) déjà vu
When I see the media taking up arms to demonize this group, it reminds of the stereotypes, generalizations, and slights taken at the (original) Tea Party movement. The Establishment has it in their interest to utilize group-think, turn us on each other, galvanize support, radicalize the image, co-opt the movement with slogans and figureheads, and make sure it gets steered swiftly into the Left-Right paradigm of politics.

Independent movements that operate outside party-politics are dangerous the the Establishment. They need to be marginalized & destroyed in this way so that average Americans don't start getting off their couch to participate.

particularly in light of the fact that you use your worst venom for those who agree with you in principle and differ only in the details.

I'm not sure who've I've bitten lately, but they probably deserved it.

I'd be glad to leave threads non-personal and on-topic. Lets all try this... startinnnnng... now!

 

[steveh_131]

If his message or purpose doesn't line up with the vehicle he's using to peddle it, maybe he should be choosing a better vehicle.

I agree with this.