Rob Pincus-Combat Focus Shooting/Advanced Pistol Handling

[Never A Victim]

Rob Pincus-Combat Focus Shooting and Advanced Pistol Handling 04/30/2016-05/01/2016 Walbridge, Ohio
This course review is for Combat Focus Shooting and Advanced Pistol Handling taught in Walbridge, Ohio by Rob Pincus from 04/30/2016-05/01/2016. I am combining the course review with both of these courses since they were taught in consecutive days.

Rob Pincus has been around forever. That’s not a joke about his age, because he’s not really that old. He’s been around the firearms training world for a long time. I first heard Rob’s name 5-6 years ago when the NRA sent me a DVD of his. After training with other companies, his name kept coming up as a staple in the firearms training industry. Combat Focus shooting is Rob’s flagship class with well over a decade of refining it down to what it is today.

Combat Focus Shooting started out with a lecture regarding safety and the objectives of the course. Rob stressed the goal of the next two days is to prepare you for a gunfight, not how to merely shoot holes in a paper target. In Combat Focus Shooting, Rob teaches unsighted fire with a handgun, which is the practice of not using your sights at close distances. This is a very divisive topic in the firearms training world and I’ve only met one other established firearms instructor that teaches unsighted fire. Rob explained that he believes handgun sights are for precision shots or when the distance is increased to the point where accuracy is required to get hits. I immediately notice a problem with this, as I found myself only getting what I considered to be acceptable hits, when I was using my front sight. This is the second class I have taken where unsighted fire has been taught, and I am still a firm believer that you should be looking at your sights anytime possible. Other topics covered in Combat Focus Shooting included draw stroke, proper stance, reloading, and many discussions on body mechanics and neuroscience.

I arrived for a second day to take the Advanced Pistol Handling course. I was hopeful this course would dive into some advanced drills, as I felt the Combat Focus Shooting course didn’t deviate much from the norm of a one day introductory class. For an “advanced” class, this was mostly shooting from unorthodox positions (sitting, kneeling, prone, etc.) as well as a small block of precision shooting and how to reload with your primary hand only. While I understand both Combat Focus Shooting and Advanced Pistol Handling are normally each two day classes, I left feeling like many important topics were left out of two days of handgun training with someone like Rob Pincus, who is an internationally known firearms instructor.

There were some things that I liked from these two days. I liked Rob’s explanation of a non-diagnostic system to clear a malfunction as well as shooting from seated positions, even including from the driver’s seat of the PDN truck. However, the list of things I didn’t like from the courses is much longer. First and foremost, I felt the topic of a proper mindset and doing everything in your power to win a violent encounter, wasn’t discussed. Rob’s opinion of pointing your muzzle up towards the sky not being acceptable, reloading with the gun by your stomach and not up near your face, no mention of head shots even in the advanced class, not teaching shooting on the move, the large “upper center mass” area that was acceptable for hits, and of course shooting without looking at your front sight were all things that I completely disagree with. Along with these things, Rob operated both days in what I would consider a very “administrative” environment. Before lunch and at the end of class on both days, Rob had all of us “unload and show clear.” I can respectfully disagree on some of the above training points, but on this point I cannot. Disarming your students, especially before they drive home for the night is not only reckless but very disappointing from a firearms instructor like Rob Pincus.

I can accept the fact that I won’t agree with everything being taught at every firearms course I attend. In fact that’s a big reason why I have made a recent attempt to diversify my firearms training with as many new instructors as I can in order to find what works for me and what doesn’t. That being said, I have to be honest when I write these course reviews. Just because I spend around $1000 for a weekend of training (including cost of the class, ammunition, gas/food, etc.) doesn’t mean I should sugarcoat how I feel about the course. I have a lot of respect for Rob Pincus as he has contributed many great things to the firearms industry. While this course was challenging for me, the things I took away from it are minimal. If someone is considering training with Rob Pincus, I would encourage it--maybe your experience will be different from mine. My experience with Combat Focus Shooting and Advanced Pistol Handling just didn’t connect with me in the same way that other courses have.

 

[cedartop]

Well you just moved up a notch in my opinion. I like Rob Pincus. I vehemently dislike and disagree with a lot of what he teaches. You managed to list a bunch of it.

 

[VERT]

Nice AAR. Thanks for sharing.

 

[GIJEW]

Thanks for the review, and for not sugar coating it.

Did Pincus just say that muzzle up is unacceptable or was his position nuanced? I agree that downward--"suhl"--is preferable but I think upward has it's place: reloading, "high-ready" behind cover.

When you said "unsighted fire", did you mean "point shooting", looking over the sights with your focus on the target?

 

[Never A Victim]

Thanks for the review, and for not sugar coating it.

Did Pincus just say that muzzle up is unacceptable or was his position nuanced? I agree that downward--"suhl"--is preferable but I think upward has it's place: reloading, "high-ready" behind cover.

When you said "unsighted fire", did you mean "point shooting", looking over the sights with your focus on the target?

I asked him if I could go muzzle up, and he said no because of safety reasons. He did, however, have all of us go muzzle up when we were laying on our back.

And yes, I mean point shooting. Or shooting without looking at your sights and looking at the target while firing. But he did say you could look at your sights if you needed a "precision" shot or if the distance increases beyond what your can make hits without looking at your sights. My opinion is: I always need a precision shot-regardless of the distance.

 

[Tactically Fat]

He still teaching the "startle response" nonsense before going for your holstered gun?

 

[Never A Victim]

He still teaching the "startle response" nonsense before going for your holstered gun?

Yes. I didn't put that in there because I had so many other things to write about. I also disagree with putting your hands up in front of your face before going to your gun EVERY time you draw.

 

[VERT]

Yes. I didn't put that in there because I had so many other things to write about. I also disagree with putting your hands up in front of your face before going to your gun EVERY time you draw.

Was the idea to already have your hands up prior to the decision to draw?

 

[Never A Victim]

Was the idea to already have your hands up prior to the decision to draw?

No. It was to always put your hands in front of your face before you drew your handgun. If your hands were down and you needed to shoot, you had to put your hands up in front of your face, then go for your gun. Instead of just going for your gun when you saw the threat.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

No. It was to always put your hands in front of your face before you drew your handgun. If your hands were down and you needed to shoot, you had to put your hands up in front of your face, then go for your gun. Instead of just going for your gun when you saw the threat.

That's tarded. There is a time for hands up and a time for straight to the draw and a time for preemptive draw, etc.

 

[VERT]

No. It was to always put your hands in front of your face before you drew your handgun. If your hands were down and you needed to shoot, you had to put your hands up in front of your face, then go for your gun. Instead of just going for your gun when you saw the threat.

Ok. I assumed it had something to do with having your hands up in some type of defensive or non threatening posture.

As as far as the muzzle up stuff I have seen/heard different opinions about this and Pincus probably isn't unique in that respect.

 

[obijohn]

Well you just moved up a notch in my opinion. I like Rob Pincus. I vehemently dislike and disagree with a lot of what he teaches. You managed to list a bunch of it.

What he said. I've had a couple of discussions with Rob on his methods, and we've agreed to disagree. I do, however, believe that it is quite worthwhile to train with Rob.

 

[Tactically Fat]

What I didn't like about this class: startle response. "We were introduced to the startle response, which we used from that point forward to start all engagements. In short, when you are presented with a threat (or in Combat Focus speak, a Dynamic Critical Incident), your bodies' natural reaction is to bring the hands up in front of the chest, and crouch slightly to prepare for fight or flight. Historical evidence shows that you cannot train this away. Even hard core SpecOps guys working in hazardous environments with 1000s of hours of training still have a startle response. Noone goes directly for their gun, unless they're in a controlled environment. So from this point forward, on command, the first step of the engagement was to simulate a startle response, or bring the hands up, and flinch, while crouching, then drawing, and engaging. We were also introduced to the concept of lateral movement from the threat while drawing to throw off their axis of attack." This is a direct quote from here, as he does a MUCH better job at voicing this. MNGunTalk.com ? View topic - Rob Pincus Combat Focus/Adv. Handgun review

I understand (kind of) the reasoning behind this. It's to make sure that we do what we can to observe and evaluate what's going on before we make the decision to draw and engage.

BUT - it's slow - as it takes our hands away from getting to the gun. We all looked like we were in a Thriller remake video as we were getting our hands up then moving laterally while drawing.

Takeaways: Efficiency of motion: Draw while moving. Don't move then draw. Simple words to say, but it takes practice. Drawing - don't worry about textbook perfect draws (ie don't necessarily have to have both hands on the gun until you're ready to fire - they can meet your gun-hand out at extension if need be). Your natural body alignment towards a target is often sufficient to get good quality hits where they need to be. Know when to use sighted fire and use it if you need to. Move. Move again. Move again.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Still BS. I have gone straight for my gun under startle response simultaneous with flinch from sound/danger.

 

[cosermann]

Still BS. I have gone straight for my gun under startle response simultaneous with flinch from sound/danger.

Then, by Rob's assessment, you must be a super ops operator guy with 1000s of hours of training . . . TIMES TEN!

With respect to my experience with Pincus' material, I was pretty much out of commission most of the month of March recovering from an emergency eye surgery. During that time, there wasn't much I could do other than watch video on a tablet looking straight down (yes, looking towards the center of the earth).

Sometime in there I came across a coupon code to for a 1 yr membership to his Personal Defense Network for something like $10, so I figured, why not.

While recuperating, I watched every . . . single. . . video on the PDN. I lost track of how many hours that was. Just spit balling, maybe it was 80 hrs of video, and of course I read a fair number of the articles too.

Anyway it's was a mish mash of stuff that I agree with and and other stuff that I don't. Much of it was not very advanced (to be fair, I don't know that the advanced shooter is his target market, and "advanced" means different things to different people). A significant bit seemed to be based on unsubstantiated theories, or psychology concepts taken to their academic/logical conclusion, but not tempered with any sort of reality check. What I liked the most were his interviews with others like Ret. Lt. Col. Dave Grossman.

I theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they aren't.

OP, thanks for the AAR.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Then, by Rob's assessment, you must be a super ops operator guy with 1000s of hours of training . . . TIMES TEN!

Yeah....probably. I'll just credit realistic training in FATS and Simunitions combined with real world experience.

 

[Never A Victim]

Thanks for all of the replies. While writing the review, I was worried that I would take a lot of flak on the interwebs because Rob has been around so long. I don't know what level of training each of you have, but I am glad to see that my views on the class aren't only my own.

 

[MCgrease08]

Takeaways: Efficiency of motion: Draw while moving. Don't move then draw. Simple words to say, but it takes practice. Drawing - don't worry about textbook perfect draws (ie don't necessarily have to have both hands on the gun until you're ready to fire - they can meet your gun-hand out at extension if need be). Your natural body alignment towards a target is often sufficient to get good quality hits where they need to be. Know when to use sighted fire and use it if you need to. Move. Move again. Move again.

I've been involved with a local citizen's police academy, which involves one class per week so we can learn more about the department, what officers do day-to-day, etc.

This week the lesson was traffic stops. We got a quick brief on the procedure along with some videos of stops gone wrong. I.E. officers getting shot. Of course, when the instructor mentioned that 20% of the officers never move even after getting shot at, I all but dismissed it. Who wouldn't move out of the way after getting shot at, I thought.

Fast forward to the outdoor training scenario where I played the role of the officer who had just pulled a woman over. I get out the car and take two steps before the driver exits her vehicle, runs around to the front of her car, turns and fires at me (blue gun with her yelling "bang, bang.")

I was the proverbial deer in head lights. I never moved. Never went for my blue gun. I just stood there thinking, what the heck is she doing?

I said to the trainer, "that's not very fair."

His response was something along the lines of, No. It wasn't. Now you know why we train for this.

 

[Coach]

If a person is not startled there is not going to be a startle response. If a person see a situation or threat coming they may still be nervous or even scared but the startle response will likely not be present. We are never going to maintain enough situational awareness that we cannot be caught by surprise and have a startle response sometimes. So learning how to work around it is important. But actually building it in as a habit through repetition and training seems counter productive.

I think a startle proof register position is more important that faking a startle response before drawing. But that is just me.

 

[EricG]

Love it. Thanks for taking the time to write that up and being honest about the experience