Republicans will stand up on guns but not abortion

[IncendiaryGunner]

Physical equality and equality before the law are two entirely different things. My point is that you are taking two people who jointly made the same bad decision if this discussion is even happening and affording one of them all the choices with zero accountability and the other zero choice with all the accountability.

If we are going to step away from my position that abortion is murder and categorically unacceptable, let's explore the following potential solution:

1. The woman still has her choice to opt out clean with abortion.
2. Assuming that she chooses not to, then the man has his choice to opt out and simply walk away.
3. I would also provide for a binding agreement to be made in which they agree for the baby to be born with the woman walking away free after giving birth with no rights, privileges, or responsibilities pertaining to the baby.
4. Assuming that neither one wants to opt out, then it can be dealt with using the traditional terms.

Under a plan of this type, there are plenty of options without having one person dictate decades of another person's life while affording him no recourse about his own life. I don't really like this, but I also believe that equality either is or is not and that no one should be able to control the life of another person, especially in a situation of equal culpability. I would agree without reservation to having a man on the hook to provide for his child in a pre-Roe environment in which the mother was equally on the hook for their mutual decision. If we are going to have equality in our leftist, amoral paradise, let's have equality.

When a baby is birthed, both parents are responsible. It takes two people to create a baby... The opt-out for a man is not impregnating a woman, and it should stay that way.

A man has the right to not engage in sexual intercourse if he so chooses. Since men do not get pregnant, the decision to have an abortion at the end of the day is not his. If a woman has a child, the man still participated in creating it - and it is still his responsibility. If he does not want to take care of it, he should not create it.

 

[IndyDave1776]

When a baby is birthed, both parents are responsible. It takes two people to create a baby... The opt-out for a man is not impregnating a woman, and it should stay that way.

If you want to go back to the good/bad old days, there was a reason why there were homes for unwed mothers as well, so 'staying that way' is a concept of similar vintage to federally-protected abortion.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

If you want to go back to the good/bad old days, there was a reason why there were homes for unwed mothers as well, so 'staying that way' is a concept of similar vintage to federally-protected abortion.

It was also socially acceptable for the father of an unwed mother to "deal" with men that walked away in their own way.

Times have changed. I like to believe for the better in some regards.

 

[IndyDave1776]

It was also socially acceptable for the father of an unwed mother to "deal" with men that walked away in their own way.

Times have changed. I like to believe for the better in some regards.

While this is true, the end result typically was that of doing the right thing which is far different from doing the wrong thing in a grossly imbalanced situation in which one party gets to lord it over the other.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

While this is true, the end result typically was that of doing the right thing which is far different from doing the wrong thing in a grossly imbalanced situation in which one party gets to lord it over the other.

You call it "lord it over the other", I will call it "forcing responsibility upon the individuals that had a hand in creating the situation".

There are some truly unfair caveats of how our legal system handles some parental situations, and in many instances men get a raw deal. We could definitely use some rational changes to how the system deals with many situations. That being said, a man being able to walk away free and clear simply because men do not get pregnant is also grossly unfair, and takes advantage of the biological difference of women. The current system was implemented because of the widespread problems that exist when men in great numbers walk away from their responsibilities.

 

[Mackey]

I don't think the pro-choice movement is only about killing babies. It is also about women saying that gov't shouldn't be able to reach into a woman's body.

You know, sort of like gov't should never be able to reach into our homes and take away our guns.

If you are against gov't overreach; than the right to choose shouldn't be an alien concept to 2nd amendment supporters.

I actually agree with the above.
Abortion is legal. That's just the way it is.
If you really, truly want to decrease the number, then support groups that can provide an alternative to women who are often left to fend for themselves.

Also.... you cannot legislate morality. Ever heard of the 10 commandments. Just didn't quite end all the lying, stealing, cheating and killing in the world, did it (as an aside ... it wasn't meant to ... it was meant to show us how corrupt and hopeless we were ... but that's a topic that I am forbidden to discuss) neither will rules, regulations and laws stop people from doing, what I believe is pure murder and the human sacrifice to the god of feminism.

If you really want to change someone's behavior, you've got to change, their heart and get them to come over to your way of thinking. If you can't do that, the problem is yours.

 

[IndyDave1776]

You call it "lord it over the other", I will call it "forcing responsibility upon the individuals that had a hand in creating the situation".

There are some truly unfair caveats of how our legal system handles some parental situations, and in many instances men get a raw deal. We could definitely use some rational changes to how the system deals with many situations. That being said, a man being able to walk away free and clear simply because men do not get pregnant is also grossly unfair, and takes advantage of the biological difference of women. The current system was implemented because of the widespread problems that exist when men in great numbers walk away from their responsibilities.

Why? A woman can do it? I should think that equal responsibility in living with the consequences calls for an equal share in making the decisions.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

Why? A woman can do it?

In reality, they never really can.

 

[IndyDave1776]

In reality, they never really can.

If you are pulling in emotional/mental/spiritual issues, I would agree, but they sure as the universe can walk into the clinic pregnant and walk out not pregnant, hence walking away from it for all practical purposes. I could make the same argument that a man who walked away could be expected to go through the rest of his life knowing that he is a f**kup, but that also is beside the point so far as rule of law is concerned.

 

[rpsthirteen]

Who is going to raise all these aborted children if abortion is made illegal? Crime rates would most definitely go up, and it would probably be blamed on guns instead of the generation of neglected children. Society is better off without unwanted children. Luckily contraceptives are available to hopefully make abortion less necessary. Also, its really no one else's business other than the person making the decision.....unless you're offering to raise that child and take it as your own. If you don't like abortions don't get one. If everyone quit trying to tell everyone else what to do this country would be able to get more important things done.

 

[sadclownwp]

Because guns are more important, they take skill to build. Children are renewable resources, that take very little skill to produce.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Who is going to raise all these aborted children if abortion is made illegal? Crime rates would most definitely go up, and it would probably be blamed on guns instead of the generation of neglected children. Society is better off without unwanted children. Luckily contraceptives are available to hopefully make abortion less necessary. Also, its really no one else's business other than the person making the decision.....unless you're offering to raise that child and take it as your own. If you don't like abortions don't get one. If everyone quit trying to tell everyone else what to do this country would be able to get more important things done.

Well said. I will go along with this one one and only one condition, which is that we legalize all forms of murder, not just one.

 

[zippy23]

Who is going to raise all these aborted children if abortion is made illegal? Crime rates would most definitely go up, and it would probably be blamed on guns instead of the generation of neglected children. Society is better off without unwanted children. Luckily contraceptives are available to hopefully make abortion less necessary. Also, its really no one else's business other than the person making the decision.....unless you're offering to raise that child and take it as your own. If you don't like abortions don't get one. If everyone quit trying to tell everyone else what to do this country would be able to get more important things done.

Personal experience here, i got a freshmen in college pregnant as a senior in college in a state that i am not from. This is definitely an unwanted child right? now i have a 6 year old daughter, a great family, i went back to school to get a better job, have a great job, i did THE RIGHT THING, i was not forced to, i was raised this way and it worked out great for society. She had many people telling her to get rid of the kid, thank god she did not, and that we both felt the same way, yes it was tough at the beginning but it is wonderful now and was then, because WE MADE IT THAT WAY. There is no destiny for unwanted children, no one is to say that the child would end up a criminal or on the streets. it is up to the parents, and in this country if you are broke(i mean seriously broke to the point where you would die cuz you cant buy food, which no one is in this country) then its your own fault. sure we may not all be rich, but we can all provide given the country we live in. no one goes hungry, hell we pay for people to have TV's and cars. Maybe that child grows up to cure cancer or be the next genius, thats pure speculation to say society is better off without unwanted children. As we are now seeing it, there are too many old people in this country and not enough working young people, social security is going bankrupt with no enough people paying into it, more people means more housing, food, clothes, etc, which means economic growth, too bad all those children were put to death.

 

[zippy23]

Every single person typing on this forum or in the world has to be against abortion if you are logical and have any common sense because....here it comes.....you are alive, you did not get aborted. Think of it this way, what if yesterday on your way home from work someone tried to kill you but thankfully failed. You would be very upset and thankful they did not kill you. So what if that happened 1 year ago? 10 years ago? 20? When you were in the womb? its really that simple. no one wants to be killed, doesnt matter how you were conceived. And in this country women can give up the child if they really cant take care of it. What about all these single moms working to pay for their kids? they are doing it, most of the time without the help of the dead beat who got them pregnant, yet they do it for the child. a person is more important than a 401k or your ability to go out on a friday night. It is sad that the liberals in society put everything below one's own self. they are nothing but selfish people. Party it up, drink it up, kill the kid if you are "too young to raise a child", screw your neighbor and take their paycheck to work 9 months a year(sorry dig at the unions!), screw everyone else to get what you want now, thats how they are and thats how they are shaping society. Sorry i wont stand for that garbage. And now that we cant adopt russian babies, there will be plenty of people wanting kids here in the u.s. I'm sorry but if you are breathing, you cant be in favor of your mother killing you. Its unreal.

 

[Survivalcookie]

I don't think the pro-choice movement is only about killing babies. It is also about women saying that gov't shouldn't be able to reach into a woman's body.

You know, sort of like gov't should never be able to reach into our homes and take away our guns.

If you are against gov't overreach; than the right to choose shouldn't be an alien concept to 2nd amendment supporters.

It is only about killing unwanted babies...there are more choices than not.

 

[LEaSH]

Whatever thumper.

 

[Survivalcookie]

Been thinking of this sign for the 2nd amendment march...

Obama protects my right to kill my unborn baby but not the right to protect my children.

Something like that any...any ideas?

 

[Bunnykid68]

Been thinking of this sign for the 2nd amendment march...

Obama protects my right to kill my unborn baby but not the right to protect my children.

Something like that any...any ideas?

I think that is perfect the way it is

 

[Survivalcookie]

Who is going to raise all these aborted children if abortion is made illegal? Crime rates would most definitely go up, and it would probably be blamed on guns instead of the generation of neglected children. Society is better off without unwanted children. Luckily contraceptives are available to hopefully make abortion less necessary. Also, its really no one else's business other than the person making the decision.....unless you're offering to raise that child and take it as your own. If you don't like abortions don't get one. If everyone quit trying to tell everyone else what to do this country would be able to get more important things done.

Ever heard of adoption...Americans by way of the laws making it so hard to adopt, go to other countries to adopt children. I think this is by design....keeps abortion clinics in business...Contraceptives have done nothing to lessen the amount of abortions...people have been brainwashed into believing they can use abortion as contraceptive...that they are not killing babies...then they do not have to worry about a condom breaking or the effect birth control has on their bodies....plus the fact it is such a hassle to take a pill everyday and I will gain 5 pounds if I take the shot or get acme...I would rather kill the inconvenient little fetus....If an single cell organism was found on Mars the media would be screaming their is life on Mars...yet a baby fully formed baby that has been in its mother wound can be aborted at 23 weeks and those same people do not consider it alive.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]