Reliability of 911

[Libertarian01]

To All,

This is truly an unfortunate story:

Pa. man dies during storm when 911 calls unheeded - Yahoo! News

I understand that the weather was bad and that the ambulance could not reach the home in time, but 30 hours?

Why couldn't they call the city street department and explain that they had an emergency, come clear us a path?

Or when paramedics were a block or two away walk to the mans home? Maybe it would have been impossible for the paramedics to get him to the hospital, but at least they could have provided superior medical care than he was receiving.

I also wonder about crime in bad weather.

Regards,

Doug

 

[hornadylnl]

Isn't 911 run by the government? And people actually expect healthcare to be better under government control? Who is John Galt?

 

[smg10383]

cant trust them bring your self to the ER

 

[Doug]

When I saw the title of your post, I thought:


911 is fine when it works, and it may work most of the time for medical emergencies. This event should teach us never to count on the government to take care of us. Its good when they come, but they might not.
For crime emergencies, 911 is state sponsored "Dial-a-Prayer," with the difference being that Dial-a-Prayer is usually more reliable. The police usually arrive in time to draw the chalk outlines and/or take statements. Until then, you are on your own.

Doug

 

[zoglog]

I've been put on hold when I've called 911. It was crazy, luckily it was not a life or death emergency!

 

[hornadylnl]

I've been put on hold when I've called 911. It was crazy, luckily it was not a life or death emergency!

Probably on a union coffee break.

 

[Bill of Rights]

To All,

This is truly an unfortunate story:

Pa. man dies during storm when 911 calls unheeded - Yahoo! News

I understand that the weather was bad and that the ambulance could not reach the home in time, but 30 hours?

Why couldn't they call the city street department and explain that they had an emergency, come clear us a path?

Or when paramedics were a block or two away walk to the mans home? Maybe it would have been impossible for the paramedics to get him to the hospital, but at least they could have provided superior medical care than he was receiving.

I also wonder about crime in bad weather.

Regards,

Doug

I did not read the story yet. I will. To answer your question, Doug, yes, the medics could have walked to his house, however, if they did, they were stuck taking care of this man. If they begin care and then abandon him, not only have they done him a moral disservice, but they have broken the law as well. In addition, while we are capable of doing much for someone and our training is extensive, it is mostly centered on short-term care to keep you alive until we transfer you to a physician.
Finally, if a crew was tied up with this man, that removes them from being able to help someone they CAN do some good for and provide some help to. It seems heartless, I know, but it is not. It is, however, a very difficult thing for a new EMT to do to triage people; essentially to decide who might live and who will die, but the principle is to do the most good for the most people.... And sadly, the two rules apply that I recently quoted: Rule #1 is, "people die." and rule #2 is, "You will not ever change rule #1."

ETA: I've now read the story. I don't know why someone (anyone!) told him he'd have to walk to them. I've helped patients to walk to my cot at their front door or as close as we can get it to them, but when they're not available, we carry them. If two of us can't, we get help. I can't speak about Pittsburgh EMS, but I know that such as is described here will never happen on a truck on which I'm working.

Isn't 911 run by the government? And people actually expect healthcare to be better under government control? Who is John Galt?

The phones are usually answered by police and/or fire dispatchers, and yes, they are usually government employees. Many times the responders are also government employees. How many of us do you know? How many of us have you ever sat down and talked to before, during, or after we lose someone? I have yet to meet a 911 dispatcher who lost someone on the other end of the phone and was the slightest bit nonchalant about it. In some cases, both for dispatchers and for field personnel, I have seen tears... and shed them myself.

I don't know what the road crew was doing. I do know that where I work, if the weather and/or roads are bad, we have a county highway truck plowing the way for the ambulance to get where we're going.

cant trust them bring your self to the ER

Great idea! And when you pass out or die behind the wheel, you just really won't give a da*n who is injured or killed by your uncontrolled vehicle, will you? You really won't care at that point whose life you endanger. That's fine, though.. Since the world revolves around you, you go ahead and do as you suggest. You'd probably be one of the people who'd accuse us of stealing someone's teeth or glasses, anyway.

Regardless of the above, though, I can promise you that if you did deign to call us and it's MY truck that responds, you'll still get the best care I'm able to give you.... and as for trust, you can take that to the bank. I've been doing this longer than some of our members here have been alive and while I'll voice my opinion and drop a neg rep on you here on INGO, I'm not compromising my principles of care over something as petty as a poor opinion, because opinions are like something else we all have.

Bill
Proud EMT-P

 

[Bill of Rights]

I've been put on hold when I've called 911. It was crazy, luckily it was not a life or death emergency!

I see you're in Indianapolis. How many people does 911 serve there? And how many dispatchers are there? Sadly, yes, it does happen. It would probably happen far less often if people weren't calling 911 for frivolous crap like McDonald's making them a bad hamburger or looking for directions to the concert that night.

Probably on a union coffee break.

Y'know... I read that story (from New York) here on INGO. Then I went to work and I heard about it again. And again. And again. To a person, I have yet to hear even one EMT or medic speak of that crew with anything but derision and disgust. The crew was irresponsible, unprincipled, and immoral in their actions, and if they were not stripped of their certifications, they should have been, at the least, to say nothing of criminal charges if any applied. It's a black mark from which we'd really rather distance ourselves.

With all that said, there may be union dispatchers, EMTs and medics in Indiana, but I'm not aware of any, and I could not be happier about that fact.

Yes, I saw your smiley. I recognize you were poking at the same story I mentioned above... Just understand, please, that while that crew didn't care about their duty, some of us take it very seriously.

Thanks.

Blessings,
Bill
Proud EMT-P

 

[bigg cheese]

was there no neighbor or relative who had 4wd to call? yes, in principle the gov employees didn't do their job, but i won't rely on them after the first call. if i had to, i'd get the phone book and look for neighbors...

 

[hornadylnl]

Y'know... I read that story (from New York) here on INGO. Then I went to work and I heard about it again. And again. And again. To a person, I have yet to hear even one EMT or medic speak of that crew with anything but derision and disgust. The crew was irresponsible, unprincipled, and immoral in their actions, and if they were not stripped of their certifications, they should have been, at the least, to say nothing of criminal charges if any applied. It's a black mark from which we'd really rather distance ourselves.

With all that said, there may be union dispatchers, EMTs and medics in Indiana, but I'm not aware of any, and I could not be happier about that fact.

Yes, I saw your smiley. I recognize you were poking at the same story I mentioned above... Just understand, please, that while that crew didn't care about their duty, some of us take it very seriously.

Thanks.

Blessings,
Bill
Proud EMT-P

Bill

Actually, I had forgotten that story and my post wasn't directed at any particular case. Just a jab at typical union employees.

In all seriousness, Bill, I have no doubt that you are a true professional at what you do. I've seen enough of your posts regarding your profession and your character stands out. I'm usually a pretty good judge of character and some would say it is foolish to say you trust someone on the internet that you've never met but there are several individuals on here that I've never met that I'd put a lot of trust in.

 

[Doug]

[/quote]Regardless of the above, though, I can promise you that if you did deign to call us and it's MY truck that responds, you'll still get the best care I'm able to give you.... and as for trust, you can take that to the bank. I've been doing this longer than some of our members here have been alive and while I'll voice my opinion and drop a neg rep on you here on INGO, I'm not compromising my principles of care over something as petty as a poor opinion, because opinions are like something else we all have.

Bill
Proud EMT-P[/quote]

Bill,
Thank You and God Bless You for Your Service. I, and I think most of us here, have only the highest respect for EMT's and, yes, Police Officers, as a group.
That said, 911 is not something a person can rely on. I don't really know if its because of frivolous calls, too few operators, uncaring attitudes, or what. Its like anti-lock brakes, you're glad they're there if you need them, but you try not to rely on them to save your life.

Doug

 

[1032JBT]

I have been working within or for the 911 system for almost 21 years. I can say without a doubt or any hesitation that while the system does fail every so often, those times are very few and far between. If you look up the number of 911 calls vs the times it failed I feel safe saying that percentage number would have a lot of zero's AFTER the period.

While this was a travesty that never should have happened, the system does work. Is it perfect.........no because it is ran by humans and therefor is destined for failure at times from the start. But those failures are few and far between.

As for depending on 911 as your only means to save your life.........well that just doesn't make any sense either.

 

[mwilson]

they changed everyones address in franklin several years ago to make it easier to find you in case of emergency(911) called the cops one time. i live 1 mile from police station. about 40 minutes later they call me to get directions.

 

[redneckmedic]

I've been put on hold when I've called 911. It was crazy, luckily it was not a life or death emergency!

Then why call?



I am very busy at work most days... I would say the 911 works just fine. BTW if your mad about being put on hold, then take it out on your fellow citizens who call for hang nails and cold symptoms for 2 weeks. Then get mad at those who have to screen the call. I guess everything is suppose to be perfect all the time.

 

[birdhunter55]

911 is no better than the morons that implemented it. Even worse than being Government, it was a government contractor. You know, lowest bid wins! In my county, the number scheme isn't consistent nor is the base city. I live in one county, yet the city base of my address is in another If you follow my 911 address, you would be about 30 miles from my house. And yes, I have called and requested a lookup. Guess what, they indicated it was 30 miles from where I live. I have tried to get this changed, but run into a vicious circle between the county and postal service. Finally got tired of the BS and quit fighting the issue. You can only bang your head against a cement wall so long before it hurts too bad to continue. Knowing this, I do not put any stock in the entire 911 system and it burns me every time I see their TAX on my phone bill!

 

[j706]

I can tell you this with certainty, If you live in Hendricks county I would say dialing 911 is a 50/50. In 2008 Hendricks county went to a consolidated dispatch located in Plainfield. It is now the only dispatch center in the county. They decided to use the junk and outdated Marion county Zclient as the operating system.

Our in car system is down as often as it is up and working correctly. We get sent to Marion county quite often my mistake. If a street in Hendricks has the name of a Marion county street,the system don't know and defaults to Marion. That takes time to figure out.

Also we are forced to rely on a battery powered handheld radio-IE..no in car radio's-none.No back up commo other than a MDT that probably won't be working. I have worked more than one shift with no radio. Radio gets damaged in a scuffle= cell phone or you better be fast on the computer. They could only afford to put incar radios in fire vehicles!!! The entire county's police is on one radio channel! Wanna hear yourself?
N9WP's Police Scanner On line, Streaming Boone, Hendricks, and Clinton County Indiana
I have actually used the above link at work when my radio was down!!!

They spent huge money on MDT's built by Motorola. (7k per) I never knew a computer could be built as junky as a Motorola m900. In two years I am on my sixth computer!!!! The computers never leave the cars and are not abused.

Hendricks County 911? Good luck. Over 2 years later and it gets worse by the day. Hendricks County got hosed. If you live here it might work,it also might not. What a JOKE!!!!

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

I first want to thank all of the 911 operators, paramedics, fire, police and others who are out there working hard to help each and every one of us when we are faced with a crisis of some sort!!!

My main issue was at the end and I did not use the sarcasm colour (My Bad...)

I use this article as an illustration that when you tell folks you have a gun to protect yourself they just respond, "you don't need a gun, just call 911."

This article does show some problems with that evening and a tragic death resulted. It seems this fellow did everything right: He recognized a mental illness problem, he dealt with it, when in trouble he called 911. I would hope that had the weather not been so bad the ambulance would have responded with greater haste and service to one of our brothers who was calling out for help.

I just spoke w/ a LEO at my school and asked him how they handled it. He explained that we had this problem only once in Fort Wayne. At that time the FWPD acquired (either as gift or rented) some used Hummers and 4WD big trucks for use during a bad snowfall here. The "normal" squadcars would patrol the main roads that had been cleared and the "special 4WD" vehicles would respond to neighborhood calls where the normal cars could not enter.

Either way this illustrates that while government services do try their best to help those in need our dependence upon these services must be anchored with a realization that we be prepared to "go it alone" as best we can.

Regards,

Doug

PS - I want to again thank our public servants for the BS they put up with from all of us and continue to go out day after day!

 

[redneckmedic]

snip.... They decided to use the junk and outdated Marion county Zclient as the operating system.....snip

If it makes you feel any better, that Zclient system was given to Marion County....by Chicago a couple of decades ago... Welcome to sloppy thirds.

 

[hornadylnl]

The lady didn't sound like she was lawyering up but I'd hate to guess how many have called her since the article was printed.

 

[j706]

If it makes you feel any better, that Zclient system was given to Marion County....by Chicago a couple of decades ago... Welcome to sloppy thirds.

I did not know that. It is pretty bad. It all makes sense now.