Rainier TCJ Bullets?

[Chuck26287]

Curious about Rainier TCJ (total copper jacket - encapsulated) bullets. Picked up 500 each of the 9mm 115 gr RN, 9mm 147 gr HP, .45 230 gr RN and .45 230 gr HP. Going to give them a try. Anyone load these bullets? What is your favorite load? What's your most accurate load? How do you feel they compare to FMJ? Next round of bullet purchases I plan to try some Precision Delta FMJ. However, I wanted to try and get away from lead vapor and barrel leading with the exposed lead bases. Any experience is appreciated.

 

[Chuck26287]

A SigForum Reloading forum comment says the Rainiers plated bullets foul the barrel with copper real bad and it's tough to clean. Frequent cleaning required for accurate shooting. Any one else experience this with Rainiers plated TCJ?

 

[mospeada]

I've heard that they'll foul if you push them too fast, that's copper washed bullets in general BTW.

I've not shot Ranier specifically, but I have shot Berry's and they're fine at lower loadings (just above starting load).

 

[Old Syko]

Discussed this in the gunshop just yesterday and the general concesus turned out to be plated or washed if you prefer were usless unless held to very low velocities. 45 acp is terrible over 750 fps. no matter if they are used in a poly or rifled barrel. My Springfield shoots everything well but these. Heard the same comments from Sig, Glock, and Kimber shooters who were there.

 

[rookie0014]

never any problems with them i load them 5gr bullseye for my 45 hope this helps.
I was always told to load them just like i load for lead.

 

[antsi]

I have had good luck with them, but I've only used them for "medium" loads in relatively low pressure, low velocity cartridges like .45 acp and .38 spl. I do not load near the minimum or the max, just "medium." They work fine for range/plinking ammo for me in these calibers.

I have not tried them for 9x19, 357 SIG, .40, 10mm, or 357 magnum. Based on what I've heard I don't think I'd want to.

 

[salemons]

I have shot many thousands of rounds thru my 9mm Glocks with no problems. I load as if they were lead. For 124 rn I use 3.9 of titegroup to 1.16 OAL. This also works for 115 but for a little hotter I sometimes bump up to 4.2 of titegroup. This is my load, anyone else should start lower and work up for safety.

 

[scheesman]

I use them exclusively in 9mm and .45 and they run great. No problems whatsoever. No excessive fouling or anything. Just make sure you listen to their recommendations of max velocity and you will be fine.

 

[skyalkov@mac.com]

Tested out my first loads with them today in 40 and 45. 5.6 grains of Unique in 45 and 5.2 grains in 40. Both loads shot well with no issues.

 

[farmboy365]

I beleave there web site says to treat them like lead when reloading they are not a high speed bullet.

 

[scheesman]

I beleave there web site says to treat them like lead when reloading they are not a high speed bullet.

It's not that they're not a high speed bullet. You just need to back off about 10% for reloading plated bullets. And in my experience, that is accurate. Backing off 10% on my .45 loads put me exactly at 800fps. Backing off 10% on my 9mm loads put me exactly at 1150fps.

 

[m_deaner]

How much do the Raniers cost now? I priced them last year and could actually buy jacked from Precision Delta for cheaper than the Raniers in 9mm.

 

[m_deaner]

I just checked prices again, and I just don't get why people use the Raniers. At Midway, it's $368 for a case of 4,000 Ranier 9mm 115 grain. That comes out to $91.75 per 1,000.

Precision Delta 115 grain jacketed is about $72 per 1,000 if you buy the same quantity and factor in shipping.
Seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

[dwordinger]

I bought a few thousand .45 bullets to reload practice ammo. The were the least expensive "jacketed" bullets I could find at the time. Ranier tells their customers to keep the velocity down. If you load to midrange like others have already written, there should be no problem. At mid or low velocity, they don't lead the barrel like cast bullets do. I agree with M_Deaner, if you can find real jacketed bullets at the same or lower price, there is no reason not to use them instead. As I said, these are for practice only. When I carry, or want more realistic practice, I use JHP.

 

[Chuck26287]

A no-brainer? I beg to differ... I personally feel I'm actually using my brain. I'm not wealthy, and I do try to be economical, but money is not everything to some people. I shoot mostly at a small indoor range. By the end of an evening of shooting, I can taste the by-products of shooting in the back of my throat. I stand there and watch a cloud of smoke blast and dissepate a few feet in front of my face with every shot, and by the end of the night, I've ingested a lot of crap. I'm sure it's mostly lube and powder residue, but a fair amount of that crap is lead, particularly shooting cast bullets. I hope to shoot for many years to come. Heavy metals in the human body, for all practical purposes are permanent and cumulative. I'm trying to evaluate the Rainiers "LeadSafe" bullets for a reason more important (to me) than their economy.

They are definately more expensive than Precision Delta FMJ. To compare, PD .45 230gr RN FMJ at $114/1000 shipped to my door. At an instate gun store, for the Rainier's .45 230gr RN TCJ I paid $150/1000 before tax, and had to drive to get them.

I don't know whether I'll stay with these Rainiers, but it's certainly worth evaluating them. If performance is comparable, and I can reduce my lead exposure, I might be willing to invest in them as my bullet of choice. Time, and test rounds, will tell. However, my next bullet purchase will be from PD so I can directly compare. After all, going from cast to even FMJ will provide improvement I'm sure (relative to lead exposure).

So, before you imply someone has made the wrong choice in a decision which doesn't even require a brain to make the right choice, realize that someone else may have completely different priorities.

Thanks for all the replies.

 

[m_deaner]

I think you're being overly sensitive. I'm not trying to call anyone stupid, just trying to help. The Raniers were once a good deal, but the price got raised through the stratosphere about 2-years ago when lead prices spiked. Ranier never lowered their prices (and neither did Barry's). Lots of shooters developed loads for these bullets when they were cheap, and kept on using them after the price spike, even though jacketed is cheaper. I can't figure it out why shooters stick with them when there are better options....

Try these if you want to limit lead exposure - they have a closed base so there is absolutely no lead burn-off. And they're still cheaper than what you're using.
Roze Distribution: 45 Acp (.451 Diameter) - 230 GR JHP

Zero makes some good bullets... I've been using their 230 grain 45ACP, but the FMJ version, not the JHP. I find their consistency in weight and length to be better than Precision Delta, but they do cost a little more.

 

[ajb]

I order mine direct from Berry's. they seem more accurate for me than Rainier.

9mm 115gr= $80.88 per 1000.
.45 230gr = $134.88 per 1000.
Shipping is included.

Fouling not bad if loaded light.

 

[kfarmerk]

I'll reiterate the same...keep the velocity mid to low and all is good. I load for 9mm and 45ACP and have had no issues.

 

[kfarmerk]

A SigForum Reloading forum comment says the Rainiers plated bullets foul the barrel with copper real bad and it's tough to clean. Frequent cleaning required for accurate shooting. Any one else experience this with Rainiers plated TCJ?

Just a thought....try some copper cleaning solvent and see if your patches come out green. If not, there can't be much copper fouling. Pretty inexpensive test.

 

[ozzie9]

been running Reniers in my 45s for years no problem. I load 5.3 gr w231 behind a 230 gr. Renier, works for me.