Question for the INGO computer guys

[nsolimini]

Well that is the way you study/learn, to each their own. If I were to ask you a question you would be able to answer and speak to it. Some people would stumble around, give a vague answer, but still have the cert. Which in my opinion, would be that they used a brain dump/pass4sure just to get the cert for their resume and look good on paper.

 

[jkaetz]

I absolutely disagree with this statement. I.T. has really become the "mail room" of the 21st Century, where any unskilled person is thrown when the company has no where else to put them. "Just train 'em up!", they tell us, as though the job isn't highly skilled and highly technical. While it's true that schooling is a big part of it, the world of I.T. is as much a hobby or even an artform in that you have to have the passion to do it on your own time and for your own enjoyment, even when you're not being paid. You can teach someone how something works, but you can't teach the kinds of critical thinking skills that a person needs to troubleshoot a complex technical problem.

Let me give you a real-world example. I worked with a guy a few years ago that had the desire and the skill but not the ability. He'd been in the field for years, too. Every time he ran a field service call, his very first action upon arriving at the customer site was to call another engineer and ask him what he should do next. Even though he knew how the software worked and how to use it, he had no idea how to troubleshoot problems with it. If the problem didn't fit one of his pre-defined scripts, he was completely lost. We would have to stop what we were working on so that we could walk him through the problem over the phone, and at that point we might just as well have gone ourselves to fix it.

Furthermore, the field changes so freaking fast that any schooling you take will likely be obsolete within a few years. They can really only teach you core concepts, but not the applications and platforms you're going to deal with day-to-day. If you're not working on it even when you're "off the job", then it's not the field for you, in spite of what the daytime TV commercials want you to believe. I've been in I.T for 22 years. Last week, I sat through 14 hours of training videos that I paid for myself (pluralsight.com - highly recommend) and did it on my own time. That's a fairly typical week for me.

Look at it this way, if you're an auto mechanic, you're not putting the wrench down at 5PM and leaving it until the next morning. Probably, when you get home, you're going to fix some annoying problem on your own car or you're going to spend the weekend tinkering because it's what you love to do. I.T. is the same. We do it because we're driven to do it, not because it's 8AM and time to go to work.

Wholeheartedly agree. IT does not fit in checklist form. It takes intuition, experience, and sometimes luck to resolve many issues. Just because people "know" Excel and how to build a computer does not make them an IT person. IT Support forums are full of people who don't have a clue. If you can sift out the uselessness from the real bits of info there you'll do alright. I'd also argue that anyone who can't admin their computer without a clicky interface should also be ruled out.

For anyone who is thinking about entering the IT world you need to pick an area. A lot of places try to get one person to do everything and that ends up very laborious as you try to change hats and re-learn what you have forgotten because you hadn't messed with it for a few months. Help desk stuff will get you started for sure, but it'll be on you to figure out what you like to do (General System Admin, Database Admin, Network Admin, etc...) and specialize in it. Formal classes do a very poor job of readying you for an actual job. They do give you something that certifies your ability to learn though. Finally, never be afraid to say "I don't know, I'll have to research it and get back to you." It's a far better answer than a wrong one. There's enough misinformation in the IT world already.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

As an IT guy...

90% of problems we face are solved by Google. Not ashamed to admit that.

 

[Ruffnek]

Wow.Went to bed and woke up and this thread has just exploded.Thank you everyone.So,how does a person start to learn on their own?I don't even know what to begin to study.I'd like to have a general knowledge so that I can be useful in most jobs but,from what I'm reading here,I think I'd like to go into the support side of it because I like being the guy that everyone calls for help.Networking might not hurt either.

 

[Scutter01]

As an IT guy...

90% of problems we face are solved by Google. Not ashamed to admit that.

Knowing how to find the answer is the important part. How many times have you worked a ticket that read "There's a box that says 'press OK to continue'. What do I do next?" There is an astonishing number of people who lose their minds when you sit them down at a keyboard.

Wow.Went to bed and woke up and this thread has just exploded.Thank you everyone.So,how does a person start to learn on their own?I don't even know what to begin to study.I'd like to have a general knowledge so that I can be useful in most jobs but,from what I'm reading here,I think I'd like to go into the support side of it because I like being the guy that everyone calls for help.Networking might not hurt either.

Again, it really depends on what you want to do. Something like a 2-year Ivy Tech program will give you a good foundation to help you decide what field to specialize in. The Cisco CCNA course (either formal training or self-study through the million or so books, videos, and docs on the internet) is a good bed for all disciplines since all computers have to talk to each other to work and it makes sense to know something about how they talk.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

So - can one of you nerds put something Linux-ey on my old PC running XP so I can have a "shop" computer?

 

[Voldemort]

Wow.Went to bed and woke up and this thread has just exploded.Thank you everyone.So,how does a person start to learn on their own?I don't even know what to begin to study.I'd like to have a general knowledge so that I can be useful in most jobs but,from what I'm reading here,I think I'd like to go into the support side of it because I like being the guy that everyone calls for help.Networking might not hurt either.

CompTIA Network+ Deluxe Study Guide Recommended Courseware: Exam N10-005: Todd Lammle: 9781118137543: Amazon.com: Books

Start reading to see if this is a good fit. Cheaper than tuition. Then CCNA, CCENT/ICND1, ICND2, CCDA, CCNP - Exam Information, Practice Tests and Router Simulations

 

[LANShark42]

28 years ago I was working on the loading dock. I got to know some of the IT guys, and when a entry level job in the "computer room" opened up, I applied and got it. At that time, entry level in IT was usually a computer operator job. Many big companies still have an operations staff but some don't, especially smaller companies. Now, desktop support or the helpdesk tend to be the entry level job.

I showed interest in my work and read everything I could get my hands on. I bought a PC (PCs weren't NEARLY as ubiquitous in everyone's homes in 1986) and learned it inside and out. I was lucky enough to have a manager who believed in OJT. I took every class they would send me to. Over the years I worked my way up, through working hard, long hours and getting computer certifications as I could. I worked through the different disciplines like desktop support and networking. I'm now a Sr. Backup Engineer for a nationwide company, making pretty good jack for not having a college degree. I work from home, so my commute is about 30 steps down into my basement office. All-in-all, it's a good field to be in.

 

[Voldemort]

28 years ago I was working on the loading dock. I got to know some of the IT guys, and when a entry level job in the "computer room" opened up, I applied and got it. At that time, entry level in IT was usually a computer operator job. Many big companies still have an operations staff but some don't, especially smaller companies. Now, desktop support or the helpdesk tend to be the entry level job.

I showed interest in my work and read everything I could get my hands on. I bought a PC (PCs weren't NEARLY as ubiquitous in everyone's homes in 1986) and learned it inside and out. I was lucky enough to have a manager who believed in OJT. I took every class they would send me to. Over the years I worked my way up, through working hard, long hours and getting computer certifications as I could. I worked through the different disciplines like desktop support and networking. I'm now a Sr. Backup Engineer for a nationwide company, making pretty good jack for not having a college degree. I work from home, so my commute is about 30 steps down into my basement office. All-in-all, it's a good field to be in.

Thats awesome, I just had a job transfer from the field - yuck. Went from driving to Peoria to basement steps too! The only way to live. Not bad for using "Memory dumps" as study helps. The fact is that there is never enough certs to satisfy employers, and they keep changing. Got to keep growing with it. But you have to start somewhere and you cannot possibly respond to every networking question all the time, its too broad. Get a cert anyway you can, get a foot in the door somewhere and keep going!
IT people tend to act like they have knowledge that nobody else could not possibly achieve, I have dealt with numerous IT departments and I am amazed at the arrogance, maybe its social ignorance. Point is, YOU CAN LEARN TOO! Go for it!

 

[Ruger-9mm]

There's some pretty good info already in this thread, so I'll try not to repeat any of that. I will share some of my experience though.

1. Realize that in IT there is something of a customer service aspect to everything. Even if you're a network jockey, you're going to have to deal with people. Since I'm front line support (Tier 1 iOS support) I get that in spades. To be honest, we hire more on your customer service ability than IT skill because we want to have that kind of good experience, but not everywhere is like that.
2. Experiment with different things to find something you like, then dive into that. Don't keep with something you hate because you like the promise of money. Money can never buy happiness.
3. On the other side of that coin, keep learning. Anyone in IT that stops learning is on the way to being promoted to customer. It's an odd balance, but something important to consider. Even though I eat, sleep and breathe iOS, I still keep a foot in the world of Windows and I keep trying new things in others. IT doesn't like one trick ponies.
4. When looking for an IT job, equally important to the pay is the culture. You could offer me a job making $50/hour, but if the corporate culture stinks, I'll walk. I've got the best of both worlds where I am, and the motivation you get from that can't be beat.
5. Google - learn all of the tricks to search it effectively, and you can solve darn near any problem you run across. I'm not ashamed to admit I've got a tab open with Google during my shift and that I use it as much or more than some of our internal search tools.
6. Lastly, be prepared to stand by your convictions and your ethics. At some point, a company or user will ask you to do something you know is wrong, immoral, illegal, unethical or fattening. It's a fine art, but being able to say no the right way can help. If it's your boss, don't be afraid to walk if you have to. Working in that kind of an environment is bad for your health and career.

OK, that was a lot, but some of the things I've run across. Good luck in your studies, and hit us up here for help. We've all been at the bottom once.

 

[yeahbaby]

If you are interested in getting into the IT support services field I recommend starting out as an entry level help desk technician, or as it is sometimes called Level 1 support. You will get experience in hardware and software support, operating systems and some networking. It can be a fast paced environment. You will experience dealing with people face to face, over the phone, via emails and thru your technology call tracking software. Once you get enough experience you can move up to Level 2 or 3 support services. One thing to remember, your customer service skills (dealing with people who are not happy their technology is not working) are equally important as your technology skills and knowledge. Good luck!

 

[Ruffnek]

Well it's a good thing that I'm a people person then.

 

[CTS]

Some decent advice in here, but really you have to be a self starter. I'm essentially an "idiot sales guy" compared to our engineers (I was apparently pretty smart until I met those folks) but I work for one of the larger Cisco/HP/MS shops in Indiana and the one trait I see that really defines the successful folks is a willingness to admit what they don't know. In IT, people who are willing to learn do well, people who act like they know everything and aren't willing to work hard die off fast. We have someone who I believe went from "church IT guy" to a Cisco CCIE in a matter of a few short years, which is a jaw dropping accomplishment. It can be done.

 

[Ruffnek]

Well I am a total noob when it comes to computers.I know how to use the internet,but I'm noobish enough to feel smart when I show/hide folders or uninstall programs or change screen orientation(that trick makes me feel borderline genius in front of friends) so I'm uncertain whether or not I know enough to even enroll at Ivy Tech.Do they start you at noob level or a level that someone like me would consider 'advanced'?

ETA: Here is the course description.I'm looking into the AAS degree.Will that help me or no?
http://www.ivytech.edu/computer-information-technology/

 

[KLB]

Go and talk to one of their advisers.

 

[poptab]

I am a programmer and every useful thing I learned was not from a class. Most of the stuff I learned from trial and error and shear persistence. There are quite a bit of free online resources that cost nothing but time and will help you decide if you like it. First a note: Do heed what some others in this thread have said about passion for this field. You must be passionate about this field... otherwise you will hate life.
I am most familiar with php, javascript, python, html, css, mysql...
SO here are some really good resources:
https://www.google.com/
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/
https://projecteuler.net/
PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor
https://www.python.org/
https://www.khanacademy.org/
MIT OpenCourseWare | Free Online Course Materials
Harvard Open Courses for Free | Open Learning Initiative

This is just scratching the surface.

 

[CathyInBlue]

I'm a "computer guy" and I'm going back to school at IVYTech to learn a "real" trade in machine tools.

I'm looking to develope my own G-code generator/machine tool control library in BASH as a hobby.

 

[Hop]

I absolutely disagree with this statement. I.T. has really become the "mail room" of the 21st Century, where any unskilled person is thrown when the company has no where else to put them. "Just train 'em up!", they tell us, as though the job isn't highly skilled and highly technical. While it's true that schooling is a big part of it, the world of I.T. is as much a hobby or even an artform in that you have to have the passion to do it on your own time and for your own enjoyment, even when you're not being paid. You can teach someone how something works, but you can't teach the kinds of critical thinking skills that a person needs to troubleshoot a complex technical problem.

Let me give you a real-world example. I worked with a guy a few years ago that had the desire and the skill but not the ability. He'd been in the field for years, too. Every time he ran a field service call, his very first action upon arriving at the customer site was to call another engineer and ask him what he should do next. Even though he knew how the software worked and how to use it, he had no idea how to troubleshoot problems with it. If the problem didn't fit one of his pre-defined scripts, he was completely lost. We would have to stop what we were working on so that we could walk him through the problem over the phone, and at that point we might just as well have gone ourselves to fix it.

Furthermore, the field changes so freaking fast that any schooling you take will likely be obsolete within a few years. They can really only teach you core concepts, but not the applications and platforms you're going to deal with day-to-day. If you're not working on it even when you're "off the job", then it's not the field for you, in spite of what the daytime TV commercials want you to believe. I've been in I.T for 22 years. Last week, I sat through 14 hours of training videos that I paid for myself (pluralsight.com - highly recommend) and did it on my own time. That's a fairly typical week for me.

Look at it this way, if you're an auto mechanic, you're not putting the wrench down at 5PM and leaving it until the next morning. Probably, when you get home, you're going to fix some annoying problem on your own car or you're going to spend the weekend tinkering because it's what you love to do. I.T. is the same. We do it because we're driven to do it, not because it's 8AM and time to go to work.



The A+ is equivalent to 6 months in the field. Other than for entry-level help desk, I don't know anyone that even considers it a useful certification, but it's as good a place to start as anywhere.


100% agree.

BOOM! Scutter nails it as far as I'm concerned.

I'm one of the IT guy those other field guys call. I can't resolve my own tickets when I'm helping them resolve theirs. I'm starting to let them swim in the deep end on their own. If they drown because they don't have the critical thinking & problem solving skills then so be it. Sound tough? Get used to it or don't go into the field. Pick another area like code development. Watching something you helped write run is pretty cool.

My company had a need for Lotus Notes / Email / Domino Database support. It's kept me employed but hardly anyone else uses it. Without some other certs I can't escape. Avoid this route.

I'm going to tackle Linux next. My company is moving heavy into that area. I'll need the cert by next year for sure.

 

[CathyInBlue]

What company is that?

 

[wtburnette]

I absolutely disagree with this statement. I.T. has really become the "mail room" of the 21st Century, where any unskilled person is thrown when the company has no where else to put them. "Just train 'em up!", they tell us, as though the job isn't highly skilled and highly technical. While it's true that schooling is a big part of it, the world of I.T. is as much a hobby or even an artform in that you have to have the passion to do it on your own time and for your own enjoyment, even when you're not being paid. You can teach someone how something works, but you can't teach the kinds of critical thinking skills that a person needs to troubleshoot a complex technical problem.

I think schooling is fine when you're starting out. If he's uncertain what direction he wants to go, the counselors at Ivy Tech, or pretty much any other college, can help. Yes, he can learn on his own, but for someone who doesn't know the field, it can be overwhelming. I don't know about Ivy Tech, but my classes through WGU have gotten me prepared for a lot of certs. So far I've taken and passed my Security+, A+, Linux+, a bunch of CIW certs and have Project+ and some Cisco certs coming up later this year. I agree that you have to continue to get education in order to stay current and keep your career going, whether that be just reading about new tech, more schooling or taking certs (or all of the above). I lapsed certs and training for a decade and my career stalled as a result. While a lot of what your taught in college will be obsolete by the time you get your degree, that degree will be a big benefit when trying to break into the field and later in your career you'll be glad you had at least a bachelor's degree. I'm now working in a field where a master's is almost required to get to where I want to go and the pay reflects that. I've been the hiring manager, or one of the hiring decision makers for the last 6 companies I've worked for and not one of the guys I've hired, or recommended for hiring lacked a degree. While you certainly can get into IT without a degree, it's much easier with one.

Another thing I found useful when I was at Ivy Tech was there Job Placement service. They had connections with a bunch of local employers and found me two IT jobs while I was going to school there, which really helped me kick off my career. I don't know if they still have this, but if so it can help a great deal.

Now aptitude, that's a whole other animal. If you have the aptitude for computers (whether that be coding, troubleshooting or whatever), you should do well. You can try some of the online courses for various areas in the computer field to see if you like any certain area, but another reason I found college useful was having instructors to talk to as well as other students. When you get stuck, or aren't really understanding something, it's great to have resources to bounce issues off of. I know I kind of miss that myself. My classes through WGU are all online and while I have message boards and email I can use for the instructors, I miss the instructor lead training of the classroom and "face time" with the profs and fellow students.