Question about move out charges

[88GT]

It is very important that you have some kind of paperwork where you told them your new address. From the day you tell them your forwarding address they have 45 days to inform you of any charges. If they miss the deadline, they have no recourse. You owe them nothing. And you can sue them for your deposit AND lawyer fees. GET A LAWYER.

Well, sort of.

The 45 days start no earlier than the termination date of the lease. NOT when the forwarding address is provided if that is before the last day of the lease. The clock can't start before the last day, but doesn't start until the tenant provides a forwarding address. So providing a forwarding address 2 weeks before the lease ends doesn't leave the landlord with 31 days to comply with the law. See the first clause below. Also notice (c). The landlord may still seek damages.

IC 32-31-3-12 Return of deposits; deductions; liability
Sec. 12. (a) Upon termination of a rental agreement, a landlord shall return to the tenant the security deposit minus any amount applied to:
(1) the payment of accrued rent; (2) the amount of damages that the landlord has suffered or will reasonably suffer by reason of the tenant's noncompliance with law or the rental agreement; and (3) unpaid utility or sewer charges that the tenant is obligated to pay under the rental agreement;
all as itemized by the landlord with the amount due in a written notice that is delivered to the tenant not more than forty-five (45) days after termination of the rental agreement and delivery of possession. The landlord is not liable under this chapter until the tenant supplies the landlord in writing with a mailing address to which to deliver the notice and amount prescribed by this subsection. Unless otherwise agreed, a tenant is not entitled to apply a securitydeposit to rent. (b) If a landlord fails to comply with subsection (a), a tenant may
recover all of the security deposit due the tenant and reasonable attorney's fees.
(c) This section does not preclude the landlord or tenant from recovering other damages to which either is entitled.
(d) The owner of the dwelling unit at the time of the termination of the rental agreement is bound by this section.

Then we have these 2 sections:

IC 32-31-3-14 Notice of damages; refund of remaining deposits
Sec. 14. Not more than forty-five (45) days after the termination of occupancy, a landlord shall mail to a tenant an itemized list of damages claimed for which the security deposit may be used under section 13 of this chapter. The list must set forth: 91) the estimated cost of repair for each damaged item; and (2) the amounts and lease on which the landlord intends to assess the tenant.
The landlord shall include with the list a check or money order for the difference between the damages claimed and the amount of the security deposit held by the landlord.

IC 32-31-3-15 Remittance of full deposit
Sec. 15. Failure by a landlord to provide notice of damages under section 14 of this chapter constitutes agreement by the landlord that no damages are due, and the landlord must remit to the tenant immediately the full security deposit.

IC doesn't say that a notice of damages has to be provided within 45 days. It says notice of damages under section 14, i.e. damages to be paid for by the security deposit, has to be provided in 45 days. Damages NOT governed by section 14, i.e. damages NOT being covered by a security deposit, are not statutorily regulated in terms of time of response. The security deposit law exists to protect the tenant from having the security deposit stolen without cause because the security deposit is still technically the tenant's property, being held as collateral, so to speak, for the mitigation of any damages the tenant causes. It's intent is to put a limit on the time the landlord can hold the tenant's property. I very seriously doubt it was intended to be read as putting a time limit on the recovery of damages in general.

I think it's pretty clear that in the absence of a security deposit, the default position for damages caused by a tenant is just like any other small claims court suit where one injured party is seeking redress from another, whatever those terms might be. But, IANAL nor a judge.

That said, the lease probably covers this and it would be the first place I'd look if I were in the OP's shoes. The second step would be to a lawyer...if the OP thinks it's worth it. Being right can be expensive sometimes. As Mr. Miyagi said, "Even if win, you lose."

 

[88GT]

When you move into a newly rented place, take pictures and/or video of everything. Ceiling, wall, floor, appliances, etc.

When you move out. COMPLETELY clean. Take pictures and/or video again.

Have the landlord meet you there for an inspection. Do not leave until they say it is ok. Then get them to sign a statement that all conditions are met and the deposit will be returned, and no charges for damaged equipment.

Do that and risk being charged the per diem amount for holdover rent.

Tenant is obligated to hand over possession at the termination date and time. Landlord is not obligated to comply with any of the terms you have set forth in this post. Guess who's gonna lose in court.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Do that and risk being charged the per diem amount for holdover rent.

Tenant is obligated to hand over possession at the termination date and time. Landlord is not obligated to comply with any of the terms you have set forth in this post. Guess who's gonna lose in court.

I think they meant "move your crap out and meet the landlord afterward to show them the conditions of the property after all your crap is gone. Dont walk out the door after you hand your keys to the landlord until she signs off that all obligations have been met under the rental agreement." NOT "dont move your crap out and then squat until she caves to your demands."

 

[88GT]

I think they meant "move your crap out and meet the landlord afterward to show them the conditions of the property after all your crap is gone. Dont walk out the door after you hand your keys to the landlord until she signs off that all obligations have been met under the rental agreement." NOT "dont move your crap out and then squat until she caves to your demands."

Yeah, I know. But there's little difference. I have 45 days to provide the notice of damages. Not 45 minutes. I am not obligated to provide what the tenant is asking for, and quite frankly, I won't. I will inspect the property on my time and my terms. And it's never the day the tenant moves out. So I'm curious what some would do as a tenant [strike]if[/strike] when, standing there in the living room, I refuse to "sign off" that all conditions are met. In all actuality, I'd probably call for forcible removal as the tenant would no longer be a tenant and would be trespassing. Holdover is probably not really gonna happen in that scenario.

I'm all for the tenant documenting the condition upon move-out. I'll even pose for time-stamp purposes. But I will not be bullied into providing an "all clear" pass just to appease someone's desire to rush the clock.

And before anybody gets his panties in a wad, excluding tenants who have skipped on the lease, I can count on one hand the number of times I have kept the full security deposit for actual physical damages*. I am VERY fair. Nay, I am beyond fair.

*Damages includes cleaning, which is by far the vast majority of deductions from the security deposit. People are gross and I make them pay dearly when I have to clean up after them. But I also give them a Damages Fee Schedule addendum to the lease which binds me and the tenant to the amounts specified for the damages specified. The tenant knows going in what it will cost. There is no excuse. I tell them to budget accordingly if they don't have time to get it all cleaned up.

 

[Hornett]

The 45 days start no earlier than the termination date of the lease. NOT when the forwarding address is provided if that is before the last day of the lease. The clock can't start before the last day, but doesn't start until the tenant provides a forwarding address. So providing a forwarding address 2 weeks before the lease ends doesn't leave the landlord with 31 days to comply with the law. See the first clause below. Also notice (c). The landlord may still seek damages.

Agreed.
The point was to be sure to give them a WRITTEN forwarding address as soon as possible.
Many people are not aware how important the forwarding address is and neglect to do it.

 

[Baditude]

I would let them take you to small claims court where the burden of proof is on their end. I highly doubt a receipt for new carpet would sway the judge. my 2 cents reasonable doubt that you caused it and it will be thrown out. Beats writing a check for $400 you don't believe you owe

 

[red46239]

7 or 8 years ago, I moved out of my last apartment into my house. Before leaving, we thoroughly cleaned and patched any holes in the walls (pictures, etc.). Upon leaving, I documented the condition of the apartment and provided the landlord with a forwarding address. 50 days later, I received a notice that around $300 of my security deposit was going to be used to repair some carpet (frayed edge). The notice was dated 15 days prior to when we received it. I promptly sent them a certified letter stating that I disagreed with their assessment of damages by me, and that they did not meet the 45 day time limit (referenced the IC in the letter). I also sent a copy of their envelope with the post marked date showing that they were beyond the 45 day limit. Less than 2 weeks later I received a check for the entire deposit.

I understand that our situations are a little different. Were I in your shoes, I would still send the letter stating that you disagree that damages were caused by you, and that they are beyond the 45 day window (reference the IC, don't quote it). I understand that there is some concern about not having a deposit, etc... but to me it is worth a shot, especially if this is a big apartment complex. I would imagine that they would see a well written letter quoting IC and decide it is not worth the hassle. Just my . When I get home, I'll see if I can find my letter on my computer. If I still have it I can send you a copy for your reference. Good luck with it.

 

[Baditude]

Lets be honest even if they do take you to small claims it will be several months.

 

[scottka]

Currently they are supposed to have a representative contact me tomorrow and I will use the information in the IC. I'll see what they say and take it from there. I mean if I have to pay it, I have to pay it... I just don't want to if I don't have to. Make sense? Haha. I feel pretty good about everything except for that dang $0 deposit thing. Seemed like a good deal at the time, but now I think it may screw me. Seems kind of stupid that a deposit would be treated differently. Honestly, if it was under 2 months, I wouldn't have even thought about it, but being that it's been this long, it didn't seem right. Thanks again, INGO. Any additional advice is always welcome as well. I think I'll definitely take more care to video or take pictures of any new apt.

 

[long coat]

How long did you live there?

 

[88GT]

Agreed.
The point was to be sure to give them a WRITTEN forwarding address as soon as possible.
Many people are not aware how important the forwarding address is and neglect to do it.

Yes. Written. Though I've accepted text messages. But I'm just that nice.

I would let them take you to small claims court where the burden of proof is on their end. I highly doubt a receipt for new carpet would sway the judge. my 2 cents reasonable doubt that you caused it and it will be thrown out. Beats writing a check for $400 you don't believe you owe

The receipt is only proof that new carpet was installed. The issue will depend on whether or not there was damage, and if so, whether or not OP caused it. But you're right, the burden is on the apartment complex. Unfortunately, the standard isn't quite as high as a criminal conviction. If the OP doesn't have evidence to refute the claim, it could go either way.

Lets be honest even if they do take you to small claims it will be several months.

I don't know about that. I have never had to wait more than a month for a court date, including for Center Township, Marion Co. Arguably the busiest small claims court in central Indiana if not the state (not sure about Lake and Porter Counties activity). It may take several months for the apartment complex to move to the next step, but once the suit is filed, OP will be served within a few days, and the court date will most likely be in a few weeks.

Currently they are supposed to have a representative contact me tomorrow and I will use the information in the IC. I'll see what they say and take it from there. I mean if I have to pay it, I have to pay it... I just don't want to if I don't have to. Make sense? Haha. I feel pretty good about everything except for that dang $0 deposit thing. Seemed like a good deal at the time, but now I think it may screw me. Seems kind of stupid that a deposit would be treated differently. Honestly, if it was under 2 months, I wouldn't have even thought about it, but being that it's been this long, it didn't seem right. Thanks again, INGO. Any additional advice is always welcome as well. I think I'll definitely take more care to video or take pictures of any new apt.

You don't have to pay it until the apartment gets a judgement against you. For that, they have to take you to court. You can ignore the letter and wait to be sued, which may never happen. Or you can respond to the letter with an official "paper trail" denial of the charges, which may or may not help if you do end up in court later.