Purchasing from classifieds

[SSGSAD]

I fully understand the wanting to ensure a good and proper person idea. What I don't understand is why they would turn down money if the potential buyer doesn't have an LTCH. Suppose the buyer just doesn't like handguns. They aren't against them, they just prefer long guns. Why punish them for it by refusing to sell the firearm? I understand that it's the seller's choice, and as a capitalist, I fully support their right to refuse a sale for any reason. I just don't understand why you would throw away money over something that doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

Because, my NAME, and anything else, is on the 4473, IF I bought said gun NEW.... IF it falls into the WRONG hands, the PO PO come knocking on MY door, asking ME, why MY gun was used in a MURDER .....
THAT is WHY .....

 

[hooky]

I fully understand the wanting to ensure a good and proper person idea. What I don't understand is why they would turn down money if the potential buyer doesn't have an LTCH. Suppose the buyer just doesn't like handguns. They aren't against them, they just prefer long guns. Why punish them for it by refusing to sell the firearm? I understand that it's the seller's choice, and as a capitalist, I fully support their right to refuse a sale for any reason. I just don't understand why you would throw away money over something that doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

I'm just thinking out loud.

Because there will be someone else who comes along, willing to do what is asked in order to buy the gun, so the seller feels he did the right thing with his property.

 

[foszoe]

What about as a buyer? Is it good practice to want to see the DL/LTCH of a seller or does that matter?

 

[Ryano23_98]

way i see it , its their (or mine) firearm and welcome to make whatever demands they choose. Heck if someone says you can buy this firearm but must bring a double-cheeseburger and fries when we meet , well i would oblige if i really wanted the firearm

dont forget the COKE

 

[Sylvain]

What about as a buyer? Is it good practice to want to see the DL/LTCH of a seller or does that matter?

I wouldn't want to show any ID if I dont see the same ID from the other person, but that's just me.

 

[foszoe]

I wouldn't want to show any ID if I dont see the same ID from the other person, but that's just me.

Well, as a buyer, I put in my final deal email before the meet that I will bring my DL/LTCH and expect to see the same. I think only in my last deal did i forget to do that.

 

[Mackey]

I wouldn't want to show any ID if I dont see the same ID from the other person, but that's just me.

Show me yours and I'll show you mine?

It is a good idea.... but

This is why I just keep my guns or trade to a gun shop.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

If they tell me where the gun show is with all the full autos they keep talking about...

I'm still looking to pick up some of those "gun show loopholes" I hear so much about. So far, the closest I've come are some molle vests. They have lots of loopholes. Suppose that's what they mean?

 

[Mellow]

way i see it , its their (or mine) firearm and welcome to make whatever demands they choose. Heck if someone says you can buy this firearm but must bring a double-cheeseburger and fries when we meet , well i would oblige if i really wanted the firearm

Holy crap. Now I know what terms I'm asking for the next time I offer a sale on the INGO classifieds.

"Must be willing to show IN LTCH and provide a #3 supersized combo from McDonalds."

Notice the lack of purple.

 

[JettaKnight]

FWIW, lots of people has posted "must show DL/LTCH" for sales I engaged in. Never once did a seller actually follow up on this request and ask when we met.

 

[indyjoe]

FWIW, lots of people has posted "must show DL/LTCH" for sales I engaged in. Never once did a seller actually follow up on this request and ask when we met.

+1 I hadn't thought about it, but that has been my experience as well. I think it is an easy way to automagically filter out the riff raff. Of course, having a few positive firearm trades or sales on here also helps reduce the non-proper person factor.

 

[Indy317]

Sellers can do whatever they want, I can ask for your library card if I want but you can also decide not to buy my gun and buy it from someone else. You dont need to show a LTCH to buy a handgun either, some people decide to ask for one anyway. Some sellers also want to see a Indiana DL, some both a DL and a LTCH, some nothing. All those scenarios are legal since as a non-FFL dealer you dont need to ask any kind of ID in order to sell a gun.

FWIW, lots of people has posted "must show DL/LTCH" for sales I engaged in. Never once did a seller actually follow up on this request and ask when we met.

I would caution all sellers if the transaction is a handgun:

IC 35-47-2-16 Retail handgun dealer's license; restrictions; display; prohibited sales; gun show

Sec. 16. (a) A retail dealer's business shall be carried on only in the site designated in the license. A separate license shall be required for each separate retail outlet. Whenever a licensed dealer moves his place of business, he shall promptly notify the superintendent, who shall at once issue an amended license certificate valid for the balance of the license period. This subsection does not apply to sales at wholesale.

(b) The license, certified by the issuing authority, shall be displayed on the business premises in a prominent place where it can be seen easily by prospective customers.

(c) No handgun shall be sold:
(1) in violation of any provision of this chapter; or
(2) under any circumstances unless the purchaser is personally known to the seller or presents clear evidence of his identity.
(d) Notwithstanding subsection (a), a retail dealer may display, sell, or transfer handguns at a gun show in accordance with this chapter and federal law.

The term "seller" isn't defined within this part of the Indiana Code. Therefore, I take it to mean anyone who sells a handgun, private individual or FFL holder or "retail dealer (term used in the IC)." Of course the defense would be "I know him, he is Indy317 from INGO...we've spoken a lot on various threads." If you want to be that person to make that defense, go for it.

I fully understand the wanting to ensure a good and proper person idea. What I don't understand is why they would turn down money if the potential buyer doesn't have an LTCH.

The LTCH is likely the only way to ensure the buyer is a proper person. It would be to complex and too much work to get a criminal history from ISP. Not only that, ISP's criminal history would likely only include in-state stuff. However, a person who applies for the LTCH is more than likely going to have their name ran through over 50 seperate data-bases to make sure they don't have certain convictions from Alaska to Texas, etc.. The LTCH isn't costly, and given the % of gun people with them, I wouldn't want to sell to anyone who doesn't have one.

 

[KG1]

I would caution all sellers if the transaction is a handgun:

IC 35-47-2-16 Retail handgun dealer's license; restrictions; display; prohibited sales; gun show

Sec. 16. (a) A retail dealer's business shall be carried on only in the site designated in the license. A separate license shall be required for each separate retail outlet. Whenever a licensed dealer moves his place of business, he shall promptly notify the superintendent, who shall at once issue an amended license certificate valid for the balance of the license period. This subsection does not apply to sales at wholesale.

(b) The license, certified by the issuing authority, shall be displayed on the business premises in a prominent place where it can be seen easily by prospective customers.

(c) No handgun shall be sold:
(1) in violation of any provision of this chapter; or
(2) under any circumstances unless the purchaser is personally known to the seller or presents clear evidence of his identity.
(d) Notwithstanding subsection (a), a retail dealer may display, sell, or transfer handguns at a gun show in accordance with this chapter and federal law.

The term "seller" isn't defined within this part of the Indiana Code. Therefore, I take it to mean anyone who sells a handgun, private individual or FFL holder or "retail dealer (term used in the IC)." Of course the defense would be "I know him, he is Indy317 from INGO...we've spoken a lot on various threads." If you want to be that person to make that defense, go for it.




The LTCH is likely the only way to ensure the buyer is a proper person. It would be to complex and too much work to get a criminal history from ISP. Not only that, ISP's criminal history would likely only include in-state stuff. However, a person who applies for the LTCH is more than likely going to have their name ran through over 50 seperate data-bases to make sure they don't have certain convictions from Alaska to Texas, etc.. The LTCH isn't costly, and given the % of gun people with them, I wouldn't want to sell to anyone who doesn't have one.

I would disagree with your position. The IC you have provided is pretty clear if you read the parts in question, in context with the entire IC, that it relates to a retail dealer and not a private sale IMO.

 

[Expat]

I would caution all sellers if the transaction is a handgun:

IC 35-47-2-16 Retail handgun dealer's license; restrictions; display; prohibited sales; gun show

Sec. 16. (a) A retail dealer's business shall be carried on only in the site designated in the license. A separate license shall be required for each separate retail outlet. Whenever a licensed dealer moves his place of business, he shall promptly notify the superintendent, who shall at once issue an amended license certificate valid for the balance of the license period. This subsection does not apply to sales at wholesale.

(b) The license, certified by the issuing authority, shall be displayed on the business premises in a prominent place where it can be seen easily by prospective customers.

(c) No handgun shall be sold:
(1) in violation of any provision of this chapter; or
(2) under any circumstances unless the purchaser is personally known to the seller or presents clear evidence of his identity.
(d) Notwithstanding subsection (a), a retail dealer may display, sell, or transfer handguns at a gun show in accordance with this chapter and federal law.

The term "seller" isn't defined within this part of the Indiana Code. Therefore, I take it to mean anyone who sells a handgun, private individual or FFL holder or "retail dealer (term used in the IC)." Of course the defense would be "I know him, he is Indy317 from INGO...we've spoken a lot on various threads." If you want to be that person to make that defense, go for it.

Foolishness... read the whole chapter. The section you quoted is for exactly what it says, retail dealers. If you want it read the way you are pushing. May sure you are only transacting business where designated on your license and have your license posted.... pretty hard to do in the Walmart parking lot.

 

[KG1]

Foolishness... read the whole chapter. The section you quoted is for exactly what it says, retail dealers. If you want it read the way you are pushing. May sure you are only transacting business where designated on your license and have your license posted.... pretty hard to do in the Walmart parking lot.

Exactly right.

The following IC is about the only thing that governs the sale of a firearm between private individuals and says nothing about "personally knowing the purchaser or requiring that the purchaser presents clear evidence of their identity". Only that they are over 18 and without reason to believe that they are prohibited.

The only thing I would ask for is identification to verify age and Indiana residency but even that is not required.

IC 35-47-2-7
Prohibited sales or transfers of ownership
Sec. 7. (a) Except an individual acting within a parent-minor child or guardian-minor protected person relationship or any other individual who is also acting in compliance with IC 35-47-10, a person may not sell, give, or in any other manner transfer the ownership or possession of a handgun or assault weapon (as defined in IC 35-50-2-11) to any person under eighteen (18) years of age

(b) It is unlawful for a person to sell, give, or in any manner transfer the ownership or possession of a handgun to another person who the person has reasonable cause to believe:
(1) has been:
(A) convicted of a felony; or
(B) adjudicated a delinquent child for an act that would be a felony if committed by an adult, if the person seeking to obtain ownership or possession of the handgun is less than twenty-three (23) years of age;
(2) is a drug abuser;
(3) is an alcohol abuser; or
(4) is mentally incompetent.

 

[KG1]

Actually this is the beginning of the section with the IC 35-47-2-14 concerning retail dealers and licensing as it relates to sec.15 & 16.

Sec.16 is the one that Indy317 brought up.

IC 35-47-2-14
Necessity of retail handgun dealer's license; display
Sec. 14. A retail dealer who:
(1) sells;
(2) trades;

(3) transfers;
(4) exposes for sale, trade, or transfer; or
(5) possesses with intent to sell, trade, or transfer;
any handgun without being licensed under sections 15 and 16 of this chapter and without displaying his license at all times commits a Class B misdemeanor.

 

[Indy317]

I would disagree with your position. The IC you have provided is pretty clear if you read the parts in question, in context with the entire IC, that it relates to a retail dealer and not a private sale IMO.

Foolishness... read the whole chapter. The section you quoted is for exactly what it says, retail dealers. If you want it read the way you are pushing. May sure you are only transacting business where designated on your license and have your license posted.... pretty hard to do in the Walmart parking lot.

Where specifically anywhere in Title 35, or Title 35/Article 42, or Title 35/Article 42/Chapter 2 does it specifically state that IC 35-42-2-16(3) only apply to only to "retail dealers." Each subsection is a complete and separate law. They are not combined so the comment about only transacting business where a license is posted is null and void because a licensee isn't involved in a private party sale in a Walmart parking lot.

The following IC is about the only thing that governs the sale of a firearm between private individuals and says nothing about "personally knowing the purchaser or requiring that the purchaser presents clear evidence of their identity".

The law about taxing the sale of alcohol doesn't say anything about the purchaser being 21 years of age. Does that mean people under 21 can buy alcohol? People need to understand how to read the Indiana Code. If you want to play fast and loose with the law, go for it. If there is anything that specifically states IC 35-47-2-16, Subsection (c) doesn't apply to individuals, I would love to see it.

Actually this is the beginning of the section with the IC 35-47-2-14 concerning retail dealers and licensing as it relates to sec.15 & 16.

Sec.16 is the one that Indy317 brought up.

IC 35-47-2-14
Necessity of retail handgun dealer's license; display
Sec. 14. A retail dealer who:
(1) sells;
(2) trades;
(3) transfers;
(4) exposes for sale, trade, or transfer; or
(5) possesses with intent to sell, trade, or transfer;
any handgun without being licensed under sections 15 and 16 of this chapter and without displaying his license at all times commits a Class B misdemeanor.

The above does state "retail dealer." But where does it state that in Sec. 16(c) that the term "seller" = "retail dealer?" They use the term "retail dealer" in (a) and (d), but they don't use it in (c)? It strikes me as odd that they would insert a generalized word such as "seller" if they really were meaning "retail dealer," especially when they used that same term in other sub-sections. The intention of the law may have been that "seller" was supposed to apply to those who are selling retail, but it doesn't state that, and if one wants to roll the dice with a deputy prosecutor in St. Joe or Lake Co., go for it.

 

[GaDawg]

 

[Expat]

What is the title of the section?

 

[Cannon762]

Heck if someone says you can buy this firearm but must bring a double-cheeseburger and fries when we meet , well i would oblige if i really wanted the firearm

Definitely going to request some food next time I sell a gun.