Pulled over tonight

[joslar15]

None. Neither have I been shot at by a gangbanging thug.

Do I really need to post incidents and statistics of people shot by police by mistake or under circumstances determined not be lawful by the same courts you cite as making the law?

Don't get me wrong. I respect authority and appreciate the difficulty of your job. Appreciate me, the citizen. I cause you no trouble, and I pay your salary. Treat everyone you meet as your employer, until you have reason to treat them differently.

Perhaps it is just me, but if you are pulled over for an equipment or moving violation, haven't you just moved from being classified as a "law abiding citizen" to some other category, thereby giving LEO cause to view you as someone other than his/her employer?

 

[Bill of Rights]

Perhaps it is just me, but if you are pulled over for an equipment or moving violation, haven't you just moved from being classified as a "law abiding citizen" to some other category, thereby giving LEO cause to view you as someone other than his/her employer?

True, committing an infraction of the traffic code is still a violation of law, in the strictest sense of the term. Consider, however, that there are so many laws, (LEOs, please correct me if I'm mistaken here) that it is relatively impossible to drive for as much as three minutes in city traffic without violating SOMEthing.

This is not a sign that one is not a law abiding citizen, but rather that there are too damn many laws. The sole purposes of that many laws are to create criminals and, since infractions are dealt with by fines, to generate revenue.

Regardless, even if your employer does commit some crime, s/he is still the one whose money is used to pay your salary. I refer here specifically to private sector jobs, however it is applicable to the public sector as well.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[CandRFan]

I figure the thing that I've got over on the cop walking up to my door, or walking up to me in person, is that I know that I'm not going to be giving him a problem. I also want the cop to know that so I don't end up on youtube or something like that. If I had a gun on me and I'm asked, I'm going to tell him what I've got and where it is. As soon as he realizes I'm not going to cause any problems the whole dynamic of it changes.

I have to admit I've never had a gun on me when pulled over for speeding or trying to explain why I was peeing behind that dumpster while tailgating before a Colts MNF game. I've never been that guy who just had a cop walk up to him and start asking him questions.

 

[dross]

Perhaps it is just me, but if you are pulled over for an equipment or moving violation, haven't you just moved from being classified as a "law abiding citizen" to some other category, thereby giving LEO cause to view you as someone other than his/her employer?

No. There's a good reason why laws are built on a system of tiers. I am not a convicted criminal, even if I request a trial for speeding and am found guilty. I don't know what level traffic violations fall under, but they don't render you a criminal.

Speeding, or running a red light, or having too dark a tint on your windows does not warrant less than polite treatment. What is the percentage of people who've never been stopped by the police? I don't know anyone who hasn't.

What kind of world would we be inviting if we said that the cops could treat us like less than law-abiding just because we committed a traffic violation?

 

[Dragon Talon TSi AWD]

Where and what is IMPD? I know now to stay awar from them, where ever they are...

 

[Bill of Rights]

Indianapolis
Metropolitan
Police
Department

 

[Dragon Talon TSi AWD]

Indianapolis
Metropolitan
Police
Department

I didn't want to try and google that acronym...

So, let me get this straight... In Indy, if they want to confiscate my firearms and test them, they can and will, and then, take 6 months to a year and then return it, in obviously a worn/lesser quality than when I gave it to them?

It does not compute!!!

 

[1032JBT]

I feel the same way, he has no more right his safety than I do mine. If a cop pulls over an off-duty cop, does he disarm him? No...

I will point out that I generally trust cops, knowing a few serving on various PD's around the area, but I'm not naive to the fact that cops are human and have also committed crime while on duty and off.

I will dispell this now, I am a cop and HAVE been disarmed when pulled over. Does it happen on a regular basis.....no, but don't say that it never happens or would never happen because I am the living case proving that you are wrong.

 

[1032JBT]

I can see where your coming from esrice. But thinking along those lines why not take a persons car keys during a traffic stop? What's to stop a person from running over the officer? How many times on Cops have you seen someone take off from a traffic stop. This results in a high speed chase usually ending with a crash and people getting hurt.

Now how many times do people pull their weapon and start firing at LE after they've notified LE that they were carrying? I've seen a person on Cops shoot at LE during a traffic stop not once did the person notify he was carrying before they started shooting.

Seems the best thing to do is keep your mouth shut unless asked by LE if your carrying any weapons.

Not really a choice for me being how I OC 99% of the time.

Problem #1: Please don't use the tv show COPS to develope your viewpoints on LE in this country. That will probably only serve to give you a wrong impression of the MAJORITY of officers in this country not the minority that are shown on the show. Do I watch COPS......yes, but I watch it as entertainment only and laugh or yell at the cops as much if not more than the suspects.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I didn't want to try and google that acronym...

So, let me get this straight... In Indy, if they want to confiscate my firearms and test them, they can and will, and then, take 6 months to a year and then return it, in obviously a worn/lesser quality than when I gave it to them?

It does not compute!!!

Not only that, they force you to be fingerprinted like a criminal before they'll return to you what is rightfully yours, even, as was quoted above, if your only "crime" was to be involved in a car accident and be hurt. It's going to take either a large protest mail by a large group of people or someone with some very deep pockets to start filing lawsuits to remedy this, and the lawsuits are 50/50 at best. (In fact, I think someone already went that route, but I could be wrong.)

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Denny347]

I didn't want to try and google that acronym...

So, let me get this straight... In Indy, if they want to confiscate my firearms and test them, they can and will, and then, take 6 months to a year and then return it, in obviously a worn/lesser quality than when I gave it to them?

It does not compute!!!

No, not for any reason. There must be a reason. Found property, stolen, taken from a domestic violence run, turned in to be destroyed, etc. We cannot just take a gun on a traffic stop. As one poster stated, he was in a crash and EMS will not touch a handgun, they call us. We will take it to the property room for safe keeping unless there is someone on scene that the owner wants to take the pistol. Otherwise it has to go to the property room. What happens to it after that is out of my control. I did not know it was taking so long to get them back.

 

[HICKMAN]

I will dispell this now, I am a cop and HAVE been disarmed when pulled over. Does it happen on a regular basis.....no, but don't say that it never happens or would never happen because I am the living case proving that you are wrong.

Thanks, that's what I was looking for. Did they ship your sidearm off to be analyzed?

 

[HICKMAN]

No, not for any reason. There must be a reason. Found property, stolen, taken from a domestic violence run, turned in to be destroyed, etc. We cannot just take a gun on a traffic stop. As one poster stated, he was in a crash and EMS will not touch a handgun, they call us. We will take it to the property room for safe keeping unless there is someone on scene that the owner wants to take the pistol. Otherwise it has to go to the property room. What happens to it after that is out of my control. I did not know it was taking so long to get them back.

Thank you for clarifying.

 

[BearArms]

It wouldnt be near as bad if they didnt feel the need to unload my gun and empty the mag.. I still don't feel the need to tell them I am carrying. I have not been pulled over while carrying yet though. It wouldnt even bother me to let him get the numbers off of it to run it. How pissed do your think the LEO would be if he returned your gun with the slide locked back and as he handed it to you, you drop another mag in drop the slide and holster it?

 

[Beau]

It wouldnt be near as bad if they didnt feel the need to unload my gun and empty the mag.. I still don't feel the need to tell them I am carrying. I have not been pulled over while carrying yet though. It wouldnt even bother me to let him get the numbers off of it to run it. How pissed do your think the LEO would be if he returned your gun with the slide locked back and as he handed it to you, you drop another mag in drop the slide and holster it?

I don't think they would be upset.

If you were in your car you could just load it up after the stop is over.

What if your in the middle of a store though. Or out walking in public?

I think I would ask the officer to stand by while I reloaded and holstered so as not scare someone while loading a firearm after LE has departed.

 

[Pull Trigger Goes Bang]

I think I would ask the officer to stand by while I reloaded and holstered so as not scare someone while loading a firearm after LE has departed.

In another thread here, one of our LEO members revealed that he insists that the stopped person not reload at the scene of the stop. He will not leave until the stopped person leaves, and he will not let the stopped person leave with their gun loaded.

This thread and others point to the real problem: there is no set procedure for an LEO-and-LTCH encounter, and apparently whatever they choose to do we are compelled to go along with.

That's not right.

If LEOs want us to respect them and disclose that we are carrying, they should respect us and come up with a standard procedure that respects our rights as well as their safety.

And property room impounds that last for months when there was no crime to investigate in the first place...that's so far into the territory of wrong I don't know what else to say about it.

 

[Beau]

In another thread here, one of our LEO members revealed that he insists that the stopped person not reload at the scene of the stop. He will not leave until the stopped person leaves, and he will not let the stopped person leave with their gun loaded.

This thread and others point to the real problem: there is no set procedure for an LEO-and-LTCH encounter, and apparently whatever they choose to do we are compelled to go along with.

.

That is ridiculous. He would be in for a long wait with me. I would stay there until he left. However long that may take if I am able to do so.

If he wants to stay there and be my personal bodyguard until I am ready to go then fine by me.

 

[chasekerion4]

In another thread here, one of our LEO members revealed that he insists that the stopped person not reload at the scene of the stop. He will not leave until the stopped person leaves, and he will not let the stopped person leave with their gun loaded.

This thread and others point to the real problem: there is no set procedure for an LEO-and-LTCH encounter, and apparently whatever they choose to do we are compelled to go along with.

That's not right.

If LEOs want us to respect them and disclose that we are carrying, they should respect us and come up with a standard procedure that respects our rights as well as their safety.

And property room impounds that last for months when there was no crime to investigate in the first place...that's so far into the territory of wrong I don't know what else to say about it.

Yeah, I can't imagine how that would go for me.

I've been pulled over twice while carrying in the car.When the officer gets to the window I simply say "before we get started, I want to let you know I have 2 firearms in the car, both are loaded, and I have a permit.

One time the officer asked me if it was loaded, to which I replied "yes". I then asked if he would prefer me to get out of the car or hand him the holstered guns. Once I handed them to him, the other time he asked me to wait outside the car.

The reason I tell the officers I carry is two-fold.

First, I don't want an officer feeling "edgy". If I was cruising at 20 over the limit, he already wants to know why I'm in a hurry. They already have a level of discomfort walking up to a car with a stranger inside. And all my vehicles have dark window tint. My first priority is to make HIM feel comfortable.

Secondly, and from my own personal experience, LEO's appreciate it VERY much if you tell them you are carrying. I got warnings both times.

The first I didn't have my wallet. 69 in a 50, no seat belt on, no LTCH (but I did have a copy in the car) and no driver's license on me. I deserved a ticket (or 3) but because I was honest he gave me a written warning.

The second time was for 72 in a 55. No seat belt again, but that's something I flat won't do; wear my seat belt. I explained to him why I don't wear it (2 close friends killed from being trapped in their cars) and even though he didn't like the idea that I was defying the odds regarding seat belts, he still let me off with a verbal warning.

Both officers deliberately thanked me for being up front about the loaded firearms.

Now, having said that, if you walked up to my car and my guns are loaded, and I offer to give them to you without any incident, I expect them to be returned to me loaded, for two reasons:

• It's not your gun to mess with. I don't know what you're doing in your cruiser. For all I know, you're permanently disabling my firearm in some way.
• If I showed you that I can handle the reponsibilities of possessing and owning a firearm, went out of my way to inform you I have a firearm (even though I don't have to) and you have verified my being legal to carry, then you, as a LEO, should feel more comfortable with me than any other traffic stop, thus not restricting my legal right to carry at all times, especially while in the privacy of my own vehicle.

I think if I were to be disarmed, I would be very upset. I would probably ask for a written policy stating that officers are required to do so, and if one was not/could not be provided, I would ask for a written apology from the superintendent/sheriff/chief and that the department issue a policy one way or the other regarding the issue.

As easy as that was for me to type, ultimately it would depend on the circumstances at the time as to whether or not I'd understand or just be pissed. I know I wouldn't appreciate it though.

 

[Dragon Talon TSi AWD]

Not only that, they force you to be fingerprinted like a criminal before they'll return to you what is rightfully yours, even, as was quoted above, if your only "crime" was to be involved in a car accident and be hurt. It's going to take either a large protest mail by a large group of people or someone with some very deep pockets to start filing lawsuits to remedy this, and the lawsuits are 50/50 at best. (In fact, I think someone already went that route, but I could be wrong.)

Blessings,
Bill

WOW!!! Remind me to never ever ever go back to Indy. I don't care, but that's like undercover entrapment almost. Well, it can be done, but it hasn't happened enough to get around the whole state. I never heard about it til now, and like I said, "It does not compute!!!"

Its like, wow, I can't even say anything situation. I don't know what I would do without one of my firearms. SHTF when you either forget your piece or you least expect it. I always carry, everywhere, except the post office and courthouse.

 

[Dragon Talon TSi AWD]

No, not for any reason. There must be a reason. Found property, stolen, taken from a domestic violence run, turned in to be destroyed, etc. We cannot just take a gun on a traffic stop. As one poster stated, he was in a crash and EMS will not touch a handgun, they call us. We will take it to the property room for safe keeping unless there is someone on scene that the owner wants to take the pistol. Otherwise it has to go to the property room. What happens to it after that is out of my control. I did not know it was taking so long to get them back.

Well, that situation is for almost any reason. The guy gets into an accident, and instead of taking his firearm for safe keeping, they treat him like a criminal as if he stole it or something. I can guarantee that some EMS/EMT conceal carry. And they could at least help out another legitimate owner that has a LTCH. Well, someone dropped the ball on that one.