Public School Bans Lunches From Home

[2ADMNLOVER]

Because tyrants and control-freaks have jumped at every opportunity to tighten the noose on our freedoms. People have died in every way imaginable in the course of human history. You can't ban everything, and call yourself "Land of the Free."

How many Nanny State laws are there? Way too many. Sounds like you are in favor of more. I'm in favor of self discipline and common sense but the way the "system" is / has been operating for so long now doesn't seem to foster those kinds of ideas .

We just keep cranking out tards that think whatever they wanna do should be OK without thinking about how their actions might affect those around them . For example , I worked maintenance for an apartment complex on the east side for awhile . EVERY DAY there was a group (8-12) of guys who would "hang out" ALL day and drink and smoke .

EVERY day there was small to teen kids watching and learning this behavior , you think they' re gonna grow up to be productive members of society ? Crap like the above isn't gonna change anything without some hardcore , temporary changes .

Granted , the "temporary" part would be hard to turn around once started.

Forced Sterilization is about as totalitarian as it gets. You are telling me that you want the government to reign over the public as if they were wild animals or something. Its scary. I'm not going to stand by and watch my countrymen be put into concentration camps or be surgically mutilated by the government. "Public" as in rapists , murderers , well fare moms , dead beat dads , drug addicts and child abusers ? Sure , I have no qualms with those folks getting sterilized .


Let's just end the welfare, free rent, food, and medical. Save the fascist dictator stuff for the history books.

Sounds great but what do you do with all the folks in these programs now ?

 

[eldirector]

Sounds great but what do you do with all the folks in these programs now ?

I'm OK with a few options:

#1 - Wean them off. Cut 10-20% a year until entitlements are gone.
#2 - Pull them off like a band-aid. Sure, it'll hurt for a moment, but then the pain is gone.

Sure beats the status quo.

 

[badwolf.usmc]

ArmedProgrammer: I only fly when I am required to do so by my job, for the very reason that I do not like what the TSA does. They provide a false sense of security to people who have no real idea what security really is.

The decision to force kids to eat school provided lunches was made by a principle that was most likely appointed by a school board. I don't know how chicago principles are decided, nor do i care enough to research the subject, but if they are appointed by a school board, who are most likely elected officials, then that is democracy/republic in action. The people who live in that area made that decision and now they have to live with it, for good or ill.

Choice; more expensive and less convenient, but there are choices. Not all choices are equal nor are they all fair, but they are there. People too often want easy choices, but how is that any different than a nanny state? In my experience, easy choices are the ones to distrust the most.


lashicoN:

The government has no business educating our kids because they have no business educating our kids.

I can't combat that form of logic so let's just say I don't agree with you youngins new fangled ideas about education. While I may agree that the federal government has no business with education, the state and local governments have long been involved with education.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

badwolf -

If you haven't seen this thread - and from your start date here at INGO, I suspect you haven't - may I present a similar thread that followed a very similar line of logic? It was also a principal's decision backed by a school board. I do not live in that School District, but my brother does - and his kids attend school there. Because of what was done to Rachael - every chance I get, I remind the idiots in the Jeffersonville School System that they are ALL lower than camel stuff at the bottom of a dry well, until they make this right. To my knowledge, no one has....

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/general_political_discussion/78193-my_daughters_problem.html

Please forgive my lack of faith in our vaunted school administration.

 

[badwolf.usmc]

badwolf -

If you haven't seen this thread - and from your start date here at INGO, I suspect you haven't - may I present a similar thread that followed a very similar line of logic? It was also a principal's decision backed by a school board. I do not live in that School District, but my brother does - and his kids attend school there. Because of what was done to Rachael - every chance I get, I remind the idiots in the Jeffersonville School System that they are ALL lower than camel stuff at the bottom of a dry well, until they make this right. To my knowledge, no one has....

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/general_political_discussion/78193-my_daughters_problem.html

Please forgive my lack of faith in our vaunted school administration.

I've lurked on the site for awhile, I like to check out a site for awhile before I start posting stuff so i can get a feel for it, but i did read that thread. That incident is a good example of why zero-tolerance programs are flawed. Nothing is black & white. Not even the military has a zero tolerance program for drugs like that.

While the two thread do follow a similar logic, all discussions about education would follow a similar path of logic. K-12 education is a requirement in this country and while it is so almost all discussions about it will be about how a line is either too far or not far enough.

 

[88GT]

Since the government, at one level or another, has been in the business of providing education in America since the mid 1600s, I'm a bit confused about how the government has no business educating our children.

Men have been stealing from other men since we stood up on our back appendages and started strolling through the plains of Africa. Are you really going to justify the authority of someone to do something based on nothing more than the fact that they've always done it?

It is wikipedia so take it however you like, but it has been a long established tradition within the US of the government providing education to the public. While it wasn't until the late 1800s that education became universally compulsory, education has been offered to the public long before the founding of our country.

No, there hasn't. There's been a spotty and nowhere-near universally-implement history of the individual states and towns of providing education for the residents of said state/town a basic education. Offered to and mandated are two completely different things.

The argument I have is this, let experts do their jobs. Do you tell a carpenter how to do his job? Yes, you tell him what you want done and maybe how you want it done, but then you get out of his way. You don't tell him how to swing his hammer, how to lay down mortar or how to hang dry wall. You wouldn't tell a doctor how to conduct heart surgery, or a gunsmith on how to repair a bolt or fix a breech. But most people are more than willing to disregard expert advice from teachers for some reason.

Because I know my child better than any teacher. And unlike the doctor, carpenter, or mason--all who apply their knowledge and experience according to the dictates of the consumer--the teacher is under no obligation to meet those same standards. The carpenter, mason, and doctor don't apply a one-size-fits-all approach to their business. Teachers do, by choice or by regulatory hand-tying, they do.

Teachers are training on how to teach and they go to school for years to learn how to do this, and most have years of field experience. They are just like anyone else, there are liberals & conservatives, good & bad ones, but overall most just teach the material that the democratically elected officials tell them to teach.

So how do you explain the higher rate of success by almost any standard homeschool students display in comparison to their government school counterparts?

What we seem to disagree on is what should be done with the children that have parents that are don't know how to take care of their kids, or are unwilling to. Most solutions people propose, while take aim at the parents, will harm the children they suppose to help than the parents themselves. What is better, spend a few thousand dollars to educated certain parents on how to take care of their kids and possible give these kids a better future, or have these kids turn out just like their parents?

And just who has the final say in deciding what standard(s) determine competency in 'how to take care of children?" You? Me?

Let's expand this logic and apply to other areas of life in the U.S. What should we do with adults who don't know how to be safe with firearms? Mandate training and education before they can purchase/own to ensure that they will follow the standard *I* have deemed sufficient to keep me, er, everybody else happy? Or what about the fellow Americans who don't worship the same God I do and subscribe to views antithetical to my ideals of freedom and liberty? Do I get to suggest ways to re-educate them?

 

[88GT]

K-12 education is a requirement in this country and while it is so almost all discussions about it will be about how a line is either too far or not far enough.

Perhaps we should be discussing the merits of compulsory education then? Without that little gem, government schools would be hard-pressed to control education in the manner they do.

 

[dross]

Perhaps we should be discussing the merits of compulsory education then? Without that little gem, government schools would be hard-pressed to control education in the manner they do.

It's simple logic, really.

1. Since you are forced to pay for government schools, and
2. since you are forced to send your kid to government school,
3. it follows that your kids can be forced to eat what the government school sells.

 

[88GT]

It's simple logic, really.

1. Since you are forced to pay for government schools, and
2. since you are forced to send your kid to government school,
3. it follows that your kids can be forced to eat what the government school sells.

But #2 is incorrect! What then, professor?

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

I've lurked on the site for awhile, I like to check out a site for awhile before I start posting stuff so i can get a feel for it, but i did read that thread. That incident is a good example of why zero-tolerance programs are flawed. Nothing is black & white. Not even the military has a zero tolerance program for drugs like that.

While the two thread do follow a similar logic, all discussions about education would follow a similar path of logic. K-12 education is a requirement in this country and while it is so almost all discussions about it will be about how a line is either too far or not far enough.

I respectfully disagree... It is not ONLY an example of why Zero Tolerance programs are flawed (although they are). It is also an example of why Schools with a (virtual) monopoly have little accountability. The School Board can be voted out, but the principal in that case was not or could not be voted out. They are shielded by the bureaucratic wall. The same would be true of the principal in the lunchroom situation.

Hence the beauty of the free market. A principal behaves like that - and INGunGuy and 500 or his closest friends send their kids to a different school... problem solved. Principal Jerkweed has no school left to administrate. Problem Solved. Soon enough they might actually listen to their CUSTOMERS.

Teachers as a rule are pretty good. There are a few (and a much higher percentage of administrators) that have forgotten who they work for.

For this reason, I favor anything that drives our schools in the direction of the free market. We can then vote with our feet. That is not truly the case now. It's getting better, but we're not where we need to be yet. As with many other things, I feel that people choose what's best for them if and when government shuts up and gets the hell out of the way. Most of the time, the elitists and do-em-gooder crowd don't think that the general populus is smart enough to decide what's best for themselves. I vehemently disagree.

 

[dross]

But #2 is incorrect! What then, professor?

In some locales it is true.

Besides, that was funny. Would it have been so hard to just play along, Miss Exact?

 

[badwolf.usmc]

Perhaps we should be discussing the merits of compulsory education then? Without that little gem, government schools would be hard-pressed to control education in the manner they do.

I began replying to your other post but i just deleted everything i had. If you want to apply me saying that i can understand why a school district would require school lunches be provided by the school itself and turn me into some government loving thug who wants to take everything away from you personally and turn you into a little brainless drone then go ahead. I'm not going to debate the merits of a compulsory education system.

 

[badwolf.usmc]

I respectfully disagree... It is not ONLY an example of why Zero Tolerance programs are flawed (although they are). It is also an example of why Schools with a (virtual) monopoly have little accountability. The School Board can be voted out, but the principal in that case was not or could not be voted out. They are shielded by the bureaucratic wall. The same would be true of the principal in the lunchroom situation.

Hence the beauty of the free market. A principal behaves like that - and INGunGuy and 500 or his closest friends send their kids to a different school... problem solved. Principal Jerkweed has no school left to administrate. Problem Solved. Soon enough they might actually listen to their CUSTOMERS.

Teachers as a rule are pretty good. There are a few (and a much higher percentage of administrators) that have forgotten who they work for.

For this reason, I favor anything that drives our schools in the direction of the free market. We can then vote with our feet. That is not truly the case now. It's getting better, but we're not where we need to be yet. As with many other things, I feel that people choose what's best for them if and when government shuts up and gets the hell out of the way. Most of the time, the elitists and do-em-gooder crowd don't think that the general populus is smart enough to decide what's best for themselves. I vehemently disagree.

Your faith in humanity is much grater than mine. From my experience, while a few people are smart, the general population leaves much to be desired. Just look at what the general population spends its time & money on, and what they worry about. It could be that i'm a bit to jaded with society as a whole, but I tend to view myself as a realist and the general population can't be trusted to do the right thing most time. And if they do the right thing, as according to my opinion, then it is usually by accident.

I have even less faith in corporations. If schools were part of the free market they would end up much same as they currently are. Big corporations would buy them all up and run them like walmart, ever try to get a complaint resolved at walmart? The independent schools wouldn't be able to compete on price level, and those big corporations would lobby for laws that would make it easier for them to compete and harder for the smaller guys.

Personally i think the ideal system would be that nobody paid any taxes for schools and parents would pay tuition, juts like college, to send their kids to any school they wanted to. It would be similar to the how the university & college system is set up.

 

[Fletch]

I have even less faith in corporations. If schools were part of the free market they would end up much same as they currently are. Big corporations would buy them all up and run them like walmart, ever try to get a complaint resolved at walmart?

I've never had a problem. Wal-Mart has a "no questions asked" return policy, and it's worked quite well for me when I've needed to use it.

The independent schools wouldn't be able to compete on price level, and those big corporations would lobby for laws that would make it easier for them to compete and harder for the smaller guys.

Just like the existence of Wal-Mart means that no other stores anywhere sell any product that Wal-Mart does, right?

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

In order of how much faith I have in:

People in general >> Corporations > Governments

That doesn't mean that I think that people will always make the right decisions. I just believe that people should have the right to screw up.

Corporations and Governments I trust far less... why? Simple logic. John Q. Public may screw up - but he is normally caught and held to account for it. Government (or corporations) are comprised of fallible people just like John Q. Public - BUT they are hidden behind the anonymous screen of the organization (corporate or government). Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

[dross]

I've never had a problem. Wal-Mart has a "no questions asked" return policy, and it's worked quite well for me when I've needed to use it.



Just like the existence of Wal-Mart means that no other stores anywhere sell any product that Wal-Mart does, right?

Also, I don't have to pay Wal Mart even if I decide to shop at Target.

 

[Fletch]

Also, I don't have to pay Wal Mart even if I decide to shop at Target.

Target doesn't exist. Wal-Mart made sure of that.

 

[dross]

Target doesn't exist. Wal-Mart made sure of that.

Well, I'd still have to pay Wal Mart even if I made everything at home AND if I didn't even shop.

 

[Fletch]

Well, I'd still have to pay Wal Mart even if I made everything at home AND if I didn't even shop.

I'm lost. What metaphor are we using again?

 

[88GT]

In some locales it is true.

Besides, that was funny. Would it have been so hard to just play along, Miss Exact?

That's Mrs. Exact, and don't you forget it.

I began replying to your other post but i just deleted everything i had. If you want to apply me saying that i can understand why a school district would require school lunches be provided by the school itself and turn me into some government loving thug who wants to take everything away from you personally and turn you into a little brainless drone then go ahead. I'm not going to debate the merits of a compulsory education system.

No, that's not my intention. I think you're a little too defensive. My point was that this lunch issue might never have come up had government not felt it had the authority to tell a family it had to send its children to school. My point was that once we acquiesce to the power a government has to tell us to do something--in this case, to educate our children in a certain manner--it becomes increasingly easy for said government to continue telling us what to do and increasingly difficult for us to decline to do so.

Perhaps the root of the problem isn't government schools per se, but the compulsory education requirement that is used to justify them.