Pro 2A stickers on your car and road rage

[g00n24]

So I know pro-2A stickers have been a topic of a few discussions, however I am wondering about the possibility of a specific situation.
So what, if any, kind of trouble would you be in if someone who rightly or wrongly thinks you did something wrong while driving (cut them off...) and noticed the NRA sticker on your car and called the cops to tell them you pointed a gun at them. Obviously you did not and they are making a false claim to the police, but how do the police know that? So, the police catch up with you with the suspicion you have a firearm and have threatened someone with it. I would imagine that is something they have to investigate no matter how many times you tell them they do not have your consent to search your person/vehicle and show them your LTCH. So assuming you are carrying, how do you prove you did not threaten the fellow motorist with a firearm?
It is your word against their's and so far the information they have given the police has been proven to be partly true (that is you have a gun with you). Now what if the police ask them to describe the gun, they pretty much have two options, silver or black, and they get that right?
Is this a situation where you'd be up the creek until a later court date, or the other driver finally admits they lied?
Do the police have enough PC to search without your consent in this situation?

 

[CTC B4Z]

they key is to be descrete

 

[ckcollins2003]

I think the best thing to do would be to let them search your vehicle and just be polite about everything. If you're a law abiding citizen they will not find anything. Along with not finding anything and you being polite, I doubt they would arrest you or try to charge you with a crime. The other person will most likely drive off, so it's not even going to be their story against yours. It's only "your" story that will matter.

With an LTCH and an NRA sticker, the officer should know you are pro-2A and wouldn't risk the bad publicity for the firearms community on something so stupid...

 

[BlueEagle]

Not so long ago, a member of this forum posted pictures from where he painted his Hi-Point purple and put puppy dog footprint stickers on it.

Carry a gun like that, and the guy who's describing it will never guess right.

I guess the best you can do in that situation, however, is to explain to the officer(s) that you never pointed a gun at anyone, and how you have stickers on the back of your car that advertise that you probably had a gun, and how MOST of the guns out there are "black" or "silver," (whatever the case may be.) Could probably point out the fact that their guns also qualify for whatever criteria the guy made up.

Also, no one has ANY proof that you did anything; innocent until proven guilty? Its your word, (the calm, level-headed, card-carrying dutiful citizen,) versus the probably apoplectic and snarling anti-gunner in the other car. Shouldn't be a hard choice for any reasonable person.

 

[foszoe]

I think the best thing to do would be to let them search your vehicle and just be polite about everything. If you're a law abiding citizen they will not find anything. Along with not finding anything and you being polite, I doubt they would arrest you or try to charge you with a crime. The other person will most likely drive off, so it's not even going to be their story against yours. It's only "your" story that will matter.

With an LTCH and an NRA sticker, the officer should know you are pro-2A and wouldn't risk the bad publicity for the firearms community on something so stupid...

I have only been here a short while and read only a few of your posts but should this post or any part of it intended to be sarcastic or is that how you really feel?

I like police, I respect the job they do, but I also listen to scanners frequently and with the reports of "driver crossing centerline" or "driver all over the road" followed by "make your own case" seems to me to place the officer on patrol in the role of detective instead of enforcement. On knee jerk reaction I don't think I would agree to a search, in fact I know i wouldn't. I would show my DL my registration, let the fact I have no criminal record (that I know of) speak of my innocence. That to me proves I shouldn't be searched without cause based on a cellphone call where the motive of the other caller is not knowable. I really hate the signs reminding motorists to "call in" sightings exactly because of these types of scenarios, gun or no gun involved. I wonder what percentage of these calls are made by people that experience road rage and I imagine the ordinary LEO would approach these types of tips with a good dose of skepticism and discretion but I guess I don't really know.



I think this is a scenario has probably played out somewhere and would like to hear how an LEO would respond. In fact I can't believe if an LEO did hear this called in about me and they positioned themselves behind me and I did nothing extraordinary that they would even have cause to pull me over for the rest of this scenario to play out.

 

[sonofagun]

If you're losing sleep over this scenario, ditch the bumper sticker!

 

[ckcollins2003]

I have only been here a short while and read only a few of your posts but should this post or any part of it intended to be sarcastic or is that how you really feel?

I like police, I respect the job they do, but I also listen to scanners frequently and with the reports of "driver crossing centerline" or "driver all over the road" followed by "make your own case" seems to me to place the officer on patrol in the role of detective instead of enforcement. On knee jerk reaction I don't think I would agree to a search, in fact I know i wouldn't. I would show my DL my registration, let the fact I have no criminal record (that I know of) speak of my innocence. That to me proves I shouldn't be searched without cause based on a cellphone call where the motive of the other caller is not knowable. I really hate the signs reminding motorists to "call in" sightings exactly because of these types of scenarios, gun or no gun involved. I wonder what percentage of these calls are made by people that experience road rage and I imagine the ordinary LEO would approach these types of tips with a good dose of skepticism and discretion but I guess I don't really know.



I think this is a scenario has probably played out somewhere and would like to hear how an LEO would respond. In fact I can't believe if an LEO did hear this called in about me and they positioned themselves behind me and I did nothing extraordinary that they would even have cause to pull me over for the rest of this scenario to play out.

Nope, no sarcasm intended. That's really what I'd do. Of course I don't care if they want to look through my vehicle. I've got nothing to hide and if it will help them see that I'm not a nutjob with a gun then I feel it's in my favor. As far as the patrol officer "playing detective", they are the ones who are going to make the judgement call, so all-in-all, I feel if I just cooperate with them it will keep both of us from wasting time.

All I'd want to do is get back in my vehicle and get to where I was going. I'm sure all he wants to do is go find an actual criminal...

It's just what I'd do though. I'm not suggesting everyone should do what I would, just giving my opinion like everyone else.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I always hoped that all of my gun stickers would keep people from riding my ass... But nope. I have to wave my gun in the air while swerving around to get them to stop. Sometimes I even have to fire a shot or two into the air.

Oh and in case you think that NRA stickers or anything else makes cops think you are a responsible citizen guess again. They see or here gun and they react the same way. Now I'm not saying all officers act the same, but that each one would act the same whether they saw your sticker or not.

 

[jsharmon7]

I like police, I respect the job they do, but I also listen to scanners frequently and with the reports of "driver crossing centerline" or "driver all over the road" followed by "make your own case" seems to me to place the officer on patrol in the role of detective instead of enforcement.

I just want to clarify this: the "make your own case" line refers to making the stop. If the caller gives the info on the offending vehicle but refuses to identify himself/herself or hangs up, then I can't just go off their report to make a stop on the vehicle. The dispatcher will advise to make your own case meaning the caller is no longer on the line and you will have to decide whether to stop the vehicle on your own observations. Do I see them driving recklessly, swerving, speeding, etc? I usually "make my own case" anyway rather than just relying on a report, but others may handle it differently. Keep in mind, I'm referring to reports of "reckless driving" or "drunk driver." Traffic complaints like these are pretty common.

I think this is a scenario has probably played out somewhere and would like to hear how an LEO would respond. In fact I can't believe if an LEO did hear this called in about me and they positioned themselves behind me and I did nothing extraordinary that they would even have cause to pull me over for the rest of this scenario to play out.

As with anything, my response would depend on the situation. Keep in mind that this is like any other claim made by one person against another. They will be asked to make a statement and then be called to court over it. If they are found to be lying, they are in big trouble. So, how does an LEO decide how to handle any he said/she said like this? It all depends on the situation and what I can determine.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I have only been here a short while and read only a few of your posts but should this post or any part of it intended to be sarcastic or is that how you really feel?

I like police, I respect the job they do, but I also listen to scanners frequently and with the reports of "driver crossing centerline" or "driver all over the road" followed by "make your own case" seems to me to place the officer on patrol in the role of detective instead of enforcement. On knee jerk reaction I don't think I would agree to a search, in fact I know i wouldn't. I would show my DL my registration, let the fact I have no criminal record (that I know of) speak of my innocence. That to me proves I shouldn't be searched without cause based on a cellphone call where the motive of the other caller is not knowable. I really hate the signs reminding motorists to "call in" sightings exactly because of these types of scenarios, gun or no gun involved. I wonder what percentage of these calls are made by people that experience road rage and I imagine the ordinary LEO would approach these types of tips with a good dose of skepticism and discretion but I guess I don't really know.



I think this is a scenario has probably played out somewhere and would like to hear how an LEO would respond. In fact I can't believe if an LEO did hear this called in about me and they positioned themselves behind me and I did nothing extraordinary that they would even have cause to pull me over for the rest of this scenario to play out.

"Listening" to police radio traffic and understanding it.... two different things.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I just want to clarify this: the "make your own case" line refers to making the stop. If the caller gives the info on the offending vehicle but refuses to identify himself/herself or hangs up, then I can't just go off their report to make a stop on the vehicle. The dispatcher will advise to make your own case meaning the caller is no longer on the line and you will have to decide whether to stop the vehicle on your own observations. Do I see them driving recklessly, swerving, speeding, etc? I usually "make my own case" anyway rather than just relying on a report, but others may handle it differently. Keep in mind, I'm referring to reports of "reckless driving" or "drunk driver." Traffic complaints like these are pretty common.



As with anything, my response would depend on the situation. Keep in mind that this is like any other claim made by one person against another. They will be asked to make a statement and then be called to court over it. If they are found to be lying, they are in big trouble. So, how does an LEO decide how to handle any he said/she said like this? It all depends on the situation and what I can determine.

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^

 

[SSGSAD]

I have called 911, a few times, on the road, using my cell....
I have always been asked, my name, and phone #... and given the info.....

 

[g00n24]

I just want to clarify this: the "make your own case" line refers to making the stop. If the caller gives the info on the offending vehicle but refuses to identify himself/herself or hangs up, then I can't just go off their report to make a stop on the vehicle. The dispatcher will advise to make your own case meaning the caller is no longer on the line and you will have to decide whether to stop the vehicle on your own observations. Do I see them driving recklessly, swerving, speeding, etc? I usually "make my own case" anyway rather than just relying on a report, but others may handle it differently. Keep in mind, I'm referring to reports of "reckless driving" or "drunk driver." Traffic complaints like these are pretty common.



As with anything, my response would depend on the situation. Keep in mind that this is like any other claim made by one person against another. They will be asked to make a statement and then be called to court over it. If they are found to be lying, they are in big trouble. So, how does an LEO decide how to handle any he said/she said like this? It all depends on the situation and what I can determine.

Ok, that is kind of what I was wondering. If an LEO would have to pull someone over after a complaint like that or if it is up to their discretion based on what they have seen.
It just seems like a plausible situation with all the whack-job anti's out there.

 

[youngda9]

Carry a high polished revolver...so when the person says you pointed an evil black firearm at them you can proove them wrong !

I don't really know why people decide to advertize anything to the world on the bumper of their car. I don't really need to know anything about you, nor does it do anything for me to know that you support XX for public office.

Makes me think you're an idiot if you're still sporting an Al Gore for president sticker on your car...saw one just last week.

 

[beararms1776]

If your worried about it, then arm yourself with a very small video cam and just record your driving sessions. If it ever happened, show LE the video. Probably not necessary, it's just an idea. It's bs to have to protect yourself from an anti with the same rights let alone an armed bg. Shows you who's side their really on. When making a false report, they should have to pay a fine for wasting taxpayer money.

 

[jsharmon7]

Ok, that is kind of what I was wondering. If an LEO would have to pull someone over after a complaint like that or if it is up to their discretion based on what they have seen.
It just seems like a plausible situation with all the whack-job anti's out there.

Again, it's all dependent on the specifics of the situation. If it's a credible report then yes you're getting stopped and investigated because someone is alleging a felony has occurred. I really don't feel like this is a likely enough event to worry about because I don't think most people are going to be stupid enough to do something like this. They would have to call in the false report, make a statement, and then come to court to be a witness against you, thereby opening themselves up to criminal charges of false reporting and perjury as well as any civil action you would take against them. It's possible that this could happen, I just don't think it's too likely.

 

[7.62]

Im not personally worried about it. Hell i just ordered my NRA license plate! Im not going to let that "fear" stop me from showing my support to something I believe in.

 

[foszoe]

I just want to clarify this: the "make your own case" line refers to making the stop. If the caller gives the info on the offending vehicle but refuses to identify himself/herself or hangs up, then I can't just go off their report to make a stop on the vehicle. The dispatcher will advise to make your own case meaning the caller is no longer on the line and you will have to decide whether to stop the vehicle on your own observations. Do I see them driving recklessly, swerving, speeding, etc? I usually "make my own case" anyway rather than just relying on a report, but others may handle it differently. Keep in mind, I'm referring to reports of "reckless driving" or "drunk driver." Traffic complaints like these are pretty common.

jsharmon,

Thanks for this. It confirms what I thought it meant and in my post I didn't make it clear. I confused two things a little bit. I know I hear them quite frequently.

Here is how I thought those types of calls went down.

Caller reports to 911 dispatcher, HANGS UP .

Dispatcher radios nearest unassigned officer the caller's information/observations and when told to "make your own case", the officer would do what you describe. Namely find the vehicle, observe the vehicle for a little bit to see if the reported behavior is exhibited by the suspect and if so then there would be justification for a stop, if the officer does not observe the erratic behavior as reported then there would not be justification for the stop.

The scenario presented in this thread is a little different at first glance to me because if a gun was presented though the window or brandished it most likely would have been stowed away long before the officer could arrive to see it, (IF the driver is DUMB enough to wave a gun at an officer then he's probably got more problems then road rage)

As with anything, my response would depend on the situation. Keep in mind that this is like any other claim made by one person against another. They will be asked to make a statement and then be called to court over it. If they are found to be lying, they are in big trouble. So, how does an LEO decide how to handle any he said/she said like this? It all depends on the situation and what I can determine.

This helps me make more sense of it so thanks again. If a caller is willing to stay on the line, I can see where that lends credibility to the call and could change the dynamics and the thought process.

After I had a while to think on this situation a little more, I realized that the 2 times I have called 911 to report an observation of an accident not only did they get my name and number but my cell phone # would also be logged.

I don't know if its true but I remember as a kid being told NOT to call 911 unnecessarily because that was considered illegal (of course as a kid that could have been illegal according to my parents or the state and at the time I had more fear of my parents )

 

[foszoe]

"Listening" to police radio traffic and understanding it.... two different things.

I know this and if I implied I understood it all, I apologize. I certainly don't think I can listen and understand the conversation next to me much less on a scanner! I did understand what the make your own case meant but i didn't think through that the caller was also putting themselves at risk for false witness.

I think the misunderstanding arose when I made a comment about making the police officer a detective when using the phrase "make your own case". Thats not what I meant though. I understood it as observe and verify the reported behavior independently of the caller and I think that is close to what jsharmon replied with.

What I meant by the detective comment meant that in the "brandishing gun" scenario the police officer probably wouldn't just be able to observe this independently of the call. The weaving and erratic can easily be independently verified. So when the officer located the car in question and observed no "gun brandishing" what would become the impetus for the stop? (rhetorical question)

There wouldn't be an observable behavior and so it seemed to me that if a stop was made the officer had crossed over more into the "detective" side of the work. The piece of the puzzle I didn't think through was the caller has also put their reputation and perhaps more on the line also.