primer warning.....

[Badly Bent]

this is for the new people starting out.....

get more than one answer before jumping into anything*** POINT is... i had a guy try to sell me small rifle primers and tell me they would work in place of small pistol primers!!!! NO they dont, i knew this from years ago by asking and then waiting for multiple reply's.... when in doubt WAIT and ask....... better safe than sorry.....


i just thought id throw this out here.... if it dont belong then delete it***,

 

[kludge]

Wait, someone was willing to sell you primers, and you said no?

 

[ZbornacSVT]

Hate to bust your bubble, but they can work as small pistol primers.

Guys have been using them for years in Major loads.

 

[jghelton]

Hate to bust your bubble, but they can work as small pistol primers.

Guys have been using them for years in Major loads.

Right on , this is a fact ....Jack

 

[dukeboy_318]

Anyone point to a credited source to confirm this? All I've ever seen is internet myths about this. I've not ever seen it put out by a trusted/creditible source, I.E Hornaday, Speer, Nosler, Lyman etc. No offense but I don't want to risk injury or damage to a 1000+ dollar weapon cause a guy on a forum said it was okay.

 

[ZbornacSVT]

Anyone point to a credited source to confirm this? All I've ever seen is internet myths about this. I've not ever seen it put out by a trusted/creditible source, I.E Hornaday, Speer, Nosler, Lyman etc. No offense but I don't want to risk injury or damage to a 1000+ dollar weapon cause a guy on a forum said it was okay.

Ask the guys who shoot the $2500+ open guns and they will confirm. I suspect you will find many guys doing as such over on Brian Enos' forum. I know RangeJunkie and a few other guys on here do it.

***EDIT***And I'm not recommending it, either. Just saying that with the right platform and application it is common.

 

[bwframe]

...No offense but I don't want to risk injury or damage to a 1000+ dollar weapon cause a guy on a forum said it was okay.

I think this is good advice. To add fuel to the fire though, I just spoke with another INGO member (Multigun/USPSA shooter) who only buys small rifle primers for both applications. This guy is a high volume shooter.

 

[Badly Bent]

well i dont know where you get your info from but i called CCI and asked the company if they would work as a substitute and they said NO... so if the factory says NO i aint about to take the work of some internet info, (no offence) i value my fingers and hands too much***,,

 

[jghelton]

Call it what you want , very suprised you got through to CCI ...Anyhow they are the same diameter , same size ...Rifle is harder than pistol , to my understanding that is the only difference . In a pistol you chance a light strike , I have changed them both back and forth ...But what do i know

 

[ZbornacSVT]

well i dont know where you get your info from but i called CCI and asked the company if they would work as a substitute and they said NO... so if the factory says NO i aint about to take the work of some internet info, (no offence) i value my fingers and hands too much***,,

You aren't reading the thread....

No one said they are a substitute. Guys who shoot Major in competitions will use them to make sure they get full ignition of their loads as they are using more powder and reaching rifle pressures in their pistols. These kind of loads will blow a regular gun up. These are the tuned-to-all-hell open guns that we are talking about.

We were simply stating it is common practice in a very specific application.

 

[Broom_jm]

well i dont know where you get your info from but i called CCI and asked the company if they would work as a substitute and they said NO... so if the factory says NO i aint about to take the work of some internet info, (no offence) i value my fingers and hands too much***,,

With the right firearm, load data and knowledge, there is nothing dangerous about using small rifle primers in pistol cartridges. CCI presumes you have none of the above, and therefore strongly recommends not interchanging components.

But stop and think for yourself a minute: The 30 Carbine is nothing more than high-pressure pistol round and what does it use? A small rifle primer. But guess what...I've used small pistol primers in them before, with no ill effect. At the end of the day, what is a primer but a means of provided a spark to the powder? IF your gun and your load are adapted to the use of small rifle primers, and you know what the heck you're doing, then your fingers and hands will be just as safe as they are with SPP's.

 

[ZbornacSVT]

With the right firearm, load data and knowledge, there is nothing dangerous about using small rifle primers in pistol cartridges. CCI presumes you have none of the above, and therefore strongly recommends not interchanging components.

But stop and think for yourself a minute: The 30 Carbine is nothing more than high-pressure pistol round and what does it use? A small rifle primer. But guess what...I've used small pistol primers in them before, with no ill effect. At the end of the day, what is a primer but a means of provided a spark to the powder? IF your gun and your load are adapted to the use of small rifle primers, and you know what the heck you're doing, then your fingers and hands will be just as safe as they are with SPP's.

I was getting ready to type something similar, but quoting this is just easier, lol.

 

[dukeboy_318]

Ask the guys who shoot the $2500+ open guns and they will confirm. I suspect you will find many guys doing as such over on Brian Enos' forum. I know RangeJunkie and a few other guys on here do it.

***EDIT***And I'm not recommending it, either. Just saying that with the right platform and application it is common.

I know, you're missing the point I'm trying to make. I'm saying that unless it's published from a creditable source(internet forums ARE NOT creditable for obvious reasons), than it should not be done. Can be and should be are too different areas. a 357 magnum cartridge CAN physically fit into a 38 special revolver, however it SHOULD NOT be done because it'll the blow the gun up. Just cause something fits in a hole, doesn't mean it's meant too.

 

[woodsie57]

I know, you're missing the point I'm trying to make. I'm saying that unless it's published from a creditable source(internet forums ARE NOT creditable for obvious reasons), than it should not be done. Can be and should be are too different areas. a 357 magnum cartridge CAN physically fit into a 38 special revolver, however it SHOULD NOT be done because it'll the blow the gun up. Just cause something fits in a hole, doesn't mean it's meant too.

Yeah- sometimes you'll get inaccurate info on the web. What kinda .38 you shooting?

 

[dukeboy_318]

Yeah- sometimes you'll get inaccurate info on the web. What kinda .38 you shooting?

I'm not, I'm just using that as an example of something that does fit but has dangerous effects.

 

[rvb]

Ask the guys who shoot the $2500+ open guns and they will confirm. I suspect you will find many guys doing as such over on Brian Enos' forum. I know RangeJunkie and a few other guys on here do it.

***EDIT***And I'm not recommending it, either. Just saying that with the right platform and application it is common.

Yes, small rifle primers are all my .38super open gun has seen. About 50k of 'em.

They are often harder, but not so much that a factory condition pistol shouldn't set off. If you're using light mainsprings/striker springs, you -may- have ignition problems.

We (IPSC-open guys) use the rifle primers because it's believed they contain excessive pressure better and are less likely to be pierced by the firing pin, flatten and flow into the firing pin hole, or have pressure blow back around the primer under higher than normal case pressures. My .38super loads are a 125gr load at 1375+fps. for a powerfactor of 172 (older rules had guys running ~180pf, or ~1440fps for a similar bullet). Guys running 9mm-major often see even higher case pressures getting similar performance out of a smaller case.

The reverse is that it is believed in standard or reduced loads, the SR primers may not seal as well allowing pressure to leak around the primer. I've not seen evidence of this but it's something I've heard... the only potential effect would be breech face errosion if it happens excessively.

I'm not sure if SR primers are really hotter than SP primers or not. I've read both. I've never done any testing. As always, start under max and work your way to your desired velocity w/ a good chrono.

I would personally NOT advise using SP in any rifle application.

If it was between using SR primers in a pistol cartridge and not shooting, I would use the SRs. If nothing else, buy them and put up a "want to trade" in the classified forum...

You have to be comfortable w/ the safety of your load. None of us here can be responsible for your choice.

Just cause something fits in a hole, doesn't mean it's meant too.

Good advise in general for the younger crowd!

-rvb

 

[Rob377]

With the right firearm, load data and knowledge, there is nothing dangerous about using small rifle primers in pistol cartridges. CCI presumes you have none of the above...
...

Were they wrong?

 

[woodsie57]

I'm not, I'm just using that as an example of something that does fit but has dangerous effects.

I've just never run into a .38 that will allow you to load .357s-chamber too short,can't close the cylinder.

 

[billybob44]

Just a few things..

Hate to bust your bubble, but they can work as small pistol primers.

Guys have been using them for years in Major loads.

AND other Hi Pressure Loads-.357 Mag. .40 S&W

well i dont know where you get your info from but i called CCI and asked the company if they would work as a substitute and they said NO... so if the factory says NO i aint about to take the work of some internet info, (no offence) i value my fingers and hands too much***,,

Good point. Internet info NEEDS weighed out. FWIW: CCI assumes that you HAVE SRP's-NOW they ALSO want to sell you SPP! Think about it??

With the right firearm, load data and knowledge, there is nothing dangerous about using small rifle primers in pistol cartridges. CCI presumes you have none of the above, and therefore strongly recommends not interchanging components.

But stop and think for yourself a minute: The 30 Carbine is nothing more than high-pressure pistol round and what does it use? A small rifle primer. But guess what...I've used small pistol primers in them before, with no ill effect. At the end of the day, what is a primer but a means of provided a spark to the powder? IF your gun and your load are adapted to the use of small rifle primers, and you know what the heck you're doing, then your fingers and hands will be just as safe as they are with SPP's.

More GREAT info from Broom!!

I know, you're missing the point I'm trying to make. I'm saying that unless it's published from a creditable source(internet forums ARE NOT creditable for obvious reasons), than it should not be done. Can be and should be are too different areas. a 357 magnum cartridge CAN physically fit into a 38 special revolver, however it SHOULD NOT be done because it'll the blow the gun up. Just cause something fits in a hole, doesn't mean it's meant too.

See above ^^^There NEEDS to be some common sense, and experience in loading BEFORE any "Changes" should be considered.

I've just never run into a .38 that will allow you to load .357s-chamber too short,can't close the cylinder.

There HAVE been cases where an older/shot out .38 Spl. cylinder WOULD accept a .357 Mag. load...

 

[LarryC]

My son and I have reloaded for well over 20 years. We reload for over 30 calibers - rifle, shotgun and handguns. We DO a lot of things that are not recommended or advised by the companies that make components. They are interested in two things (1) Making a Profit and (2) Not loosing that profit in a lawsuit - however frivolous).

BUT we do work our loads up using a Chrony, and inspecting both the firearm before firing, the brass and primer condition after firing our test shots to insure we are not over pressuring the firearm. We also use a lot of Surplus military powder in our rifles.

Would I recommend a Newby do what we do? NOPE, cause I don't know what he understands about pressure signs, if he will take the time to build and fire test loads using a Chronograph, and finally I don't want a lawsuit myself! We have found the Mil surp powder to be as good as any in developing accurate loads - but I sure wouldn't want a new loader to use my loads! We only use the data for the lot number we have - new lots = new test loads. A newby may think its all the same!

Same goes with powder, can you use a "faster powder" than recommended? Sure if you insure you have adequate fill of the case for proper ignition, a primer (probably magnum) that will insure proper lite off, AND you do the proper load testing as above!

A lot of us here take the testing for granted and do recommend these loads, but we should be careful cause of the Newbys!