Well said.
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Precision Gun Range neighbors think they are in the line of fire
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Well said.
Besides the Ghost Story, which was a good one, this reminds me, a few years back, on a hunting forum there was a big blow up over a hiker suing a hunter because the hunter's bullet missed the deer and hit the hiker. As you can guess many on the forum blamed the hiker for being in the woods during hunting season, "what did he expect it's hunting season", "he should have know better", "that's the risk you take", etc, etc.
If the bullets are leaving the range how is the homeowner at fault? They aren't complaining about the noise. I'm reminded of what a CO said during Hunter's ED class: "20% are hunters, and 20% are anti-hunters, it's the 60% in the middle that will decide the future of hunting".
If the bullets are leaving the range how is the homeowner at fault? They aren't complaining about the noise. I'm reminded of what a CO said during Hunter's ED class: "20% are hunters, and 20% are anti-hunters, it's the 60% in the middle that will decide the future of hunting".
indiucky
Grandmaster
A man who posts that many pictures of Salma Hayek and has one more K 22 than I do can not be all bad....I like Kirk's sense of humor and I KNOW that puts me in the minority here...We never really got to know the young Thurston Howell the III as he was in his 60's when he and his wife went on that "Three hour tour" and ended up on a desert island....But we do have Kirk......
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And I'm sure they totally blamed their realtor!
On the Camp Atterbury thing, I always suspected the realtors told the homeowners, "Oh, don't worry, they never do any training there anymore."
But an active airport?
A man who posts that many pictures of Salma Hayek and has one more K 22 than I do can not be all bad....I like Kirk's sense of humor and I KNOW that puts me in the minority here...We never really got to know the young Thurston Howell the III as he was in his 60's when he and his wife went on that "Three hour tour" and ended up on a desert island....But we do have Kirk......
And now for something completely different...
[video=youtube;k5ba1OKY7Xc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5ba1OKY7Xc[/video]
Dont get me wrong, I think it's funny. But it's like store-bought bacon. You have to cook out all the filler before it's good. And I've never appreciated ego. Some people spend all their energy making sure everyone knows they are right. Some people spend their energy helping others be right. One can be right all day, and people will disagree with them simply out of spite for someone impressed with their own wit. I personally don't mind sifting through the crap to get to the bottom line, but you will never reach as many people as you could if you hadn't busied yourself with insulting your audience.
indiucky
Grandmaster
An excellent analogy sir...
Oh, by the way, kudos for the Monty Python clip. Hadn't seen that one, and I've seen my share.
That'll work...because bullets travel in a straight line over 1100 yards. I suppose it would work of direction...but outdoors?
My guess, some analysis of the direction of travel, possibly the angle on impact (obviously not with the tumbler) and if possible (and if they have the desire to get fancy) velocity on impact if there is evidence of that to analyze.
I just became a member of MCF&G. During the orientation the range safety officer stressed the importance and criticality of not having a stray round leave the confines of the range boundaries. The "management" recently rebuilt the firing line and installed overhead wooden buffers to prevent rounds leaving range. Nothing is impossible, but shooters would have to work pretty hard to let a round escape.
Lastly, the SO reminded everyone that we should treat the range as if it was THEIR PROPERTY ! Sounded like a good idea.
I am having a little trouble believing the Precision Gun Range folks are doing an adequate job of policing the shooters. I realize they can't monitor everyone 100% of the time - but because a few jerkoffs are apparently unable to police themselves the range is going to have to do it for them.
Lastly, the SO reminded everyone that we should treat the range as if it was THEIR PROPERTY ! Sounded like a good idea.
I am having a little trouble believing the Precision Gun Range folks are doing an adequate job of policing the shooters. I realize they can't monitor everyone 100% of the time - but because a few jerkoffs are apparently unable to police themselves the range is going to have to do it for them.
Kirk Freeman
Grandmaster
I agree, but remember many people who own guns do not have a deep understanding of ballistics or projectile motion or how firearms operate or how firearms are to be handled.
Remember the fights we would have on INGO about whether a firearm could discharge without triggers being pulled until I started posting the Shootrite 870 and the dropped guns discharging threads? You will have those same "discussions" on the range about tongue waggers manipulating long guns at their waists, or how it does not take many degrees of angle for a round to escape.
It's not that these people are malicious. Not at all. They simply do not know and out of pride, ego or whatever will refuse to listen to the concept that THEY are endangering others,
Ever called a guy in the gun store for sweeping the world with gun he was just handed? Every yelled "muzzle!" at the guy who starts to turn around with a malf'd firearm at the range? How did the guy react? Right.
No one likes being called on their behavior. So they rationalize their behavior and refuse to listen to correction. It is this stubbornness that we must address and correct.
The range can be fixed with hardware, but a software fix creates a greater safety factor.
This post, and thread in general, remind me of a specific event etched in my memory.
I visited Farmland Conservation Club with a friend when I was still young enough to be there on my dad's membership. I forget what we were shooting that day. I imagine I had my Garand. As we were shooting another guy shows up with his son. He pulls out some kind of bubba'd SKS or something. I don't think it was an AK, but it had a detachable mag and folding stock. SKS sticks in my mind, but maybe I couldn't tell the difference back then. Anyway, he asks us if we want to try it. I thought, sure. Why not? And my friend and I both shot it, and I politely hid the fact I didn't care for it. He then says "you'll love this
", folds the butt stock, throws a couple of milk jugs down range, and begins firing at them from the hip. 
Well, immediately, the club VP runs over and starts taking down license plate numbers and informs everyone their membership will not be renewed, as my friend and I tried to distance ourselves from the situation. What had started as a polite exchange had turned into a soup sandwich. Luckily the VP realized we were telling the truth. But that jerk was not only endangering the farmhouse 1/2 mile away, he was also educating his kid on how to be a jerk when he grew up.
indiucky
Grandmaster
I'm not sure I agree with this. Doesn't the shooter have the final say in where their round goes? Isn't the shooter's responsibility to not fire a round high? If shooters are hitting overhead walls or deflectors, shouldn't they stop and figure out why?
To add to your list of examples is the former Citizens Gas & Coke Utility on the southeast side of Indianapolis. That plant "cooked" coal in ovens to the point where the coal broke down into component parts, namely, methane gas, coal tar, and coke. The methane gas was used by residential and commercial customers for heating, cooking, etc. The coal tar was used by Reilly Tar & Chemical to make various chemical products. The coke was shipped to the steel mills to make steel.
The CG&CU plant was built around the turn of the 19-20th centuries and there were no houses around. That didn't stop residential developers from building houses around the plant. And, that didn't stop the residents from complaining about the odors emanating from the plant.
Now, the plant is shut down and being dismantled. The irony of all this is that the Indianapolis/Marion County government is talking about building a criminal justice center on that property. Which would you rather have in your backyard? A chemical plant or a jail?
Yes...and nothing you said leads to the conclusion that the range owners blaming individuals shooters is an adequate response.
johntheplinker
Master
Yes, but unfortunately there's more than a few folks who just flat don't give a ****.
thunderchicken
Grandmaster
Ok, I saw the news report on FOX59 and had some concerns with the hight of the back stop shown. I have never been to this range, and until I saw the report never heard of it. I have always been taught by both my dad and firearms trainers a basic principal. From the time you acquire a round of ammunition to the time it hits it's target YOU OWN IT. Regardless of where you shoot from or your best intentions it's your responsibility. So someone built a house down range on another piece of property. That means the range owners/operators have to improvise, adapt and overcome the new obstacles to their operation. Likewise those utilizing the range need to act in a responsible manner. Granted there will always be some jackwagon that makes us all look bad. That is where range officers/ management have to do their jobs and educate shooters to the unnecessary risk they are creating or ask them to leave. If someone needs so much attention call the range cold and handle it. Not pointing blame but looking at the picture as a whole seems like more can be done by both parties - range operators and shooters. The concerned homeowner seems to be acting in a clam understanding manner and has a legitimate reason to bring up the issue. Now, let me throw out a possibility. Is it possible someone is using the range at an unauthorized time and in an unsupervised manner that could account for the errant rounds landing on otjer property?
