PPK or Bersa

[clfergus]

I don't know anything about the PPK but I can tell you my experience with the Bersa Thunder .380.

I have always had glocks but wanted something smaller and with an external safety for my wife. Bought a brand new .380 all black at Bradis. Took the gun to Pops and got through about 50 rounds. It was a nice shooter. Minimal recoil, dead on and feels good in the hand. I was excited.

Got another 14 rounds throgh and a FTF. The trigger fealt loose. The gun wouldn't fire even after I cleared the round and loaded another.

I went home and started researching the web. I went to Bersatalk.com and found that there was disconnector spring issue that had been seen in many of the newer Thunder .380s. So I took off my grip and sure enough mine spring had slipped off. So I reset it and took it back out. Ten rounds into it same thing.

So I sent my gun into Colorado Gun Works which is the largest warranty repair center for them. They claimed that the factory install process was torquing the springs too much.

Got my gun back and happened again! I was so frustrated. Sent it back again, got it back and the same thing. THANK GOODNESS bradis was good to me and took the gun back for store credit.

You might want to go to Bersatalk and see if this is still an issue. When I was there earlier in the year it was a major issue with many people upset.

I can tell you that it didn't seem to be an issue with older guns and the .380 concealed carry model. Just the newer Thunder .380s made between I would say early 2008-January 2009.

If I were to buy another I would make sure of the manufacture date to be outside of that range. I personally would buy a nice used one from before 2007 as everyone I talk to loves theres.

 

[cosermann]

Nemick - WHy a .380? I have had a slew of them, including Bersa, Walther PPK, AMT, and Colt. They only one I still have is the little COLT because it shoots so smooth. But you can get a GREAT 9mm which gives you more power, a wider range of more available ammo, and often more capacity in very small packages.

+1 Although I can see someone picking a .380 for a few reasons such as: Budgetary - cheaper pistol candidate, Ergonomic - very recoil sensitive, Regulatory - live in a jurisdiction that prohibits military calibers, Subjective - like the gun's history, movie association, etc -- however, I don't think it makes ballistic/defensive sense when a 9 mm is available in a similar form factor (and none of the preceding reasons are applicable). Here are 2 examples to illustrate, one with a "classic-size" .380 and one wth a "pocket-size" .380.

Bersa Thunder 380 - 6.61" L x 4.92" H x 1.34" W, 3.5" bbl, 20 oz, 7+1 cap
Kahr CW9 - 5.9" L x 4.5" H x 0.9" W, 3.6" bbl, 17.7 oz, 7+1 cap

In this case, the Kahr is smaller in every dimension and is chambered in 9mm. To be fair, the Bersa comes in at about $285 while the Kahr comes in at about $420. However, if you don't reload, due to the greater cost of .380, the Kahr will have a lower cost of ownership over time. I did a cost/break-even analysis on this a while back, but can't lay my hands on it right now.

Kel-Tec P3AT - 5.2" L x 3.5" H x 0.77 W, 2.7" bbl, 11 oz, 6+1 cap
Kahr PM9 - 5.3" L x 4.0" H x 0.9" W, 3.0" bbl, 15.9 oz, 6+1 cap

In this case, the Kel-Tec is slightly smaller in every dimension. Whether it's significant or not depends on one's needs/use.

If you're really set on a 380, as someone who has owned, does own, or has shot every gun mentioned in this thread so far, I'd really try to steer you away from the Walther and toward most anything else. The Walther has some history and James Bond panache going for it, but that's about it. Cost, weight, ergonomics, and reliability all favor the newer designs. I'd go with the Bersa if value was the most important, and the SIG 232 if I wanted something a little more refined (and 2.4 oz. lighter and 0.14" narrower than the Bersa). If there were no other factors pushing me to .380 acp, I'd get one of the current crop of subcompact 9 mms.

 

[cosermann]

I did a cost/break-even analysis on this a while back, but can't lay my hands on it right now.

It bugged me that I couldn't find it, so I redid one.

Assumptions:
1. Bersa Thunder 380 matte cost - $299 (avg of 3 dealers)
2. Kahr CW9 - $410 (avg of 3 dealers)
3. 50 rnd box of UMC 95 gr FMJ 380 acp - $20
4. 50 rnd box of UMC 115 gr FMJ 9 mm - $15 (a 30% cost difference is pretty typical between 380 and 9 mm)

After shooting 1,150 rounds (or 23, 50 rnd boxes), the total cost of ownership (pistol + ammo) of the Bersa is $759 while the cost for the Kahr is $755 ($4 cheaper), and the cost of the Kahr becomes $5 cheaper for every box shot after that (given the above assumptions). If one shoots 100 rounds/month (only 2 boxes/month), the time to break even is 11.5 months or roughly 1 year. After 2 years at such a rate, the Kahr is $129 cheaper overall. Granted, there area lot of variables here (one may shoot more or less, one could reload, etc), but that's how a typical scenario might work out.

What's also pretty typical is that one spends more on ammunition over the life of a firearm than they did initially on the firearm itself.

Ymmv!

 

[batmann]

It bugged me that I couldn't find it, so I redid one.

Assumptions:
1. Bersa Thunder 380 matte cost - $299 (avg of 3 dealers)
2. Kahr CW9 - $410 (avg of 3 dealers)
3. 50 rnd box of UMC 95 gr FMJ 380 acp - $20
4. 50 rnd box of UMC 115 gr FMJ 9 mm - $15 (a 30% cost difference is pretty typical between 380 and 9 mm)

After shooting 1,150 rounds (or 23, 50 rnd boxes), the total cost of ownership (pistol + ammo) of the Bersa is $759 while the cost for the Kahr is $755 ($4 cheaper), and the cost of the Kahr becomes $5 cheaper for every box shot after that (given the above assumptions). If one shoots 100 rounds/month (only 2 boxes/month), the time to break even is 11.5 months or roughly 1 year. After 2 years at such a rate, the Kahr is $129 cheaper overall. Granted, there area lot of variables here (one may shoot more or less, one could reload, etc), but that's how a typical scenario might work out.

What's also pretty typical is that one spends more on ammunition over the life of a firearm than they did initially on the firearm itself.

Ymmv!

Wow, that is some really nice work. I was going to suggest a Kel-Tec because that's what I have, I think a mini Kahr is better.

 

[Roadie]

It bugged me that I couldn't find it, so I redid one.

Assumptions:
1. Bersa Thunder 380 matte cost - $299 (avg of 3 dealers)
2. Kahr CW9 - $410 (avg of 3 dealers)
3. 50 rnd box of UMC 95 gr FMJ 380 acp - $20
4. 50 rnd box of UMC 115 gr FMJ 9 mm - $15 (a 30% cost difference is pretty typical between 380 and 9 mm)

After shooting 1,150 rounds (or 23, 50 rnd boxes), the total cost of ownership (pistol + ammo) of the Bersa is $759 while the cost for the Kahr is $755 ($4 cheaper), and the cost of the Kahr becomes $5 cheaper for every box shot after that (given the above assumptions). If one shoots 100 rounds/month (only 2 boxes/month), the time to break even is 11.5 months or roughly 1 year. After 2 years at such a rate, the Kahr is $129 cheaper overall. Granted, there area lot of variables here (one may shoot more or less, one could reload, etc), but that's how a typical scenario might work out.

What's also pretty typical is that one spends more on ammunition over the life of a firearm than they did initially on the firearm itself.

Ymmv!

For what it is worth, last time I was in BG Firearms they had a few of the Thunder 380s for $249. (if I recall correctly)

 

[cosermann]

$249 is a good deal on the Thunder 380 and is getting to the point where it's almost too inexpensive NOT to have one laying around. At the cheaper price, the break even point I posted earlier occurs 5 months (or 10, 50 rnd boxes of ammo) later.

 

[Hoosier8]

I paid $249 for my Bersa 380CC and it is a nice gun and shares ammo with my P3AT which is about the best gun I have for throwing in a pocket.

 

[calcot7]

Of the ones I've shot, the Bersa has the better trigger. That's the main reason I purchased a Bersa Thunder 380. Well that and the price. Haven't had any problems with it.

 

[kludge]

I got my Bersa for $220 almost brand new (1 box of ammo through it) with a spare mag and 2 boxes of ammo.

Mags are $35. Ammo is $15/box. I did OK.

Flawless so far. Probably 3-4 other have shot it too. I'd say there's been 200 rounds through it since I've owned it.

 

[ChalupaCabras]

They are both good guns, but If your looking for a gun of that ilk I would take the Sig 232 every time.

Its more expensive yes, but the ergonomics as well as the fit of parts are noticeably better than the current generation of PPKs. The Bersa has them both beat as far as "bang for the buck".

 

[spectrumbf]

PPK My Bersa jams all of the time.

 

[Roadie]

PPK My Bersa jams all of the time.

Really?? Odd. Jams how? Stovepipe? What type of ammo?

 

[m2steven]

I have the Bersa and i shot it yesterday. It's one heck of a great pistol. Easy to point, shoot, and get back on target.
I'm in the process of buying a Walther, but I doubt it will shoot any better than the Bersa. I've had my Bersa 3 years and it's never misfired. It's a great carry gun too - very light.

 

[Shoots4Fun]

I have a Bersa 380 and it shoots great. To be honest, everyone I shoot with loves shooting it too. I've shot a friend's PPK and it seemed higher quality but overall shot about the same to me. The Bersa has been dependable and reliable, especially when using the factory magazines. For the cost, you can't beat it for the 380.

With that said, I wish I would have bought a subcompact or compact 9mm instead of the Bersa. I have a Glock 27 and it is actually smaller and not really any heavier than the Bersa. The 9mm ammo is certainly a lot easier to find around nowadays so for me, i wish I would have gone that way.

Just my ...

 

[EMC0853]

So I'm a .380 Thunder guy also. Bought it new 6 months ago at Fort Liberty. Initially I was not happy, as I also experienced the spring issue mentioned already. I sent it back to Colorado Gun Works as well. When I received it back it was perfect. I'm not kidding - perfect. The trigger feel is sweet, it's easy to shoot and as accurate as I can be with my modest skills. That being said I'm seriously thinking of consolidating calibers and abandoning the .380. Still unsure if I will pull the trigger (so to speak) you may see an ad at some point in the future. Overall I'm very pleased with the Bersa.

 

[Crimson]

My wife has the walther. We shot it a couple weeks ago and man it is a very nice shooting gun. She loves it. I might have to get one also in the future. So I say go with the ppk.

 

[jdub]

My Bersa gave me fits. I carry a Kel Tec P32 now and salivate over the Ruger LCP.