Powders, accuracy, and opinions

[cundiff5535]

Hi INGO, lots of loading questions the last week! I am looking for powder thoughts on the following:

45acp,38super, and 9mm

i want the most accurate, best shooting, cleanest power out there! I have typically used Winchester 231, Bullseye, Titegroup, Universal, Unique, and CFE Pistol. I have a bunch of 231, Unique, and CFE left, but recently shot some Winchester Super Target and was pretty amazed by it in my 45.

i have read VV is too notch stuff, but have little experience with it in pistol.

i know there are some a few newer powders out there, just looking for thoughts and help on powders for shooting 50 yard hardball/accuracy style shooting.

All thoughts and help appreciated!

 

[oldpink]

The only real way to find out is via trial and error, experimenting with each powder at various charge levels.
With that said, best accuracy is usually achieved in a given cartridge with powder charges that most nearly fill all the airspace in the case for your intended muzzle velocity without requiring compression.
That is the main reason why Hodgdon created Titegroup powder.
Obviously, there are scores of other variables involved with reloading that can also affect accuracy, such as seating depth, crimp, neck expansion, etc., but filling up the case with just about any cartridge tends to have a vary high chance of success.

 

[M67]

i want the most accurate, best shooting, cleanest power out there!

That's the million dollar search isn't it? If it was that simple there wouldn't be 50+ different types of pistol powder out there

Guns shoot different powder differently. Like mentioned above, trial and error.

I never really got the "cleanest" powder thing either. Most people clean/baby their guns so to have 200 rounds without cleaning (maybe 1 range session) is blasphemous to most so it's not like the powder is going to sit in there forever, and even if it does powder residue wipes off easy.


I cover all my pistol calibers with Red Dot and Unique. I don't care how dirty they run because my pistols go forever without cleaning and the powders do well for my purposes.

 

[Cynical]

IMHO it's a powder and bullet combination, not just powder. I've used pretty much all you have listed except CFE pistol. For me 231/ bullseye are in a dead heat as far as performance goes in my hand loads. I can't speak to the .38 super as I don't own one. I seem to have the best results with bullseye and use it pretty much exclusively in my pistol loads. It's the most inexpensive powder I use next to unique and accuracy is more than acceptable for me. Good luck on your quest.

 

[cundiff5535]

Yeah, I get what everyone is saying!! I am going to give some VV 210,220,240, and 250 for the three caliber a I was speaking to. I have spoke to a lot of the best bullseye competition shooters in the last 8 hours and I have some solid load data from them. If it pans out well, I'll be sure to talk about my experiences!!!

 

[craigkim]

Yeah, I get what everyone is saying!! I am going to give some VV 210,220,240, and 250 for the three caliber a I was speaking to. I have spoke to a lot of the best bullseye competition shooters in the last 8 hours and I have some solid load data from them. If it pans out well, I'll be sure to talk about my experiences!!!

I don't know if I have noticed one powder being cleaner than the others. I have used Titegroup, CFE Pistol, Unique, vv310, vv320, vv350. I have noticed that all of the powders do seem to burn "cleaner" at the upper end of their range and I guess this is pretty much common sense. I feel like most powders also perform best in this range. So, when thinking about developing a load I first determine what speed I want and what weight of projectile I am using and then select a powder that will be in the upper end of its range at those parameters. I have really enjoyed shooting the VV powders, but I wouldn't say that they are better than CFE Pistol or Titegroup, its just that it was fun to experiment with the different characteristics.

 

[King31]

I know you have it listed, but Universal seems like it would work well for all of those. It a medium range powder as far as burn rate and from my experience, although limited, it is pretty clean. I have had no issues with it and the price won't kill the wallet. I'm getting ready to use some Clays for my 45, but I don't think it would be very efficient for a 50 yard shot. Good Luck!

 

[Fullmag]

Tell me about your load with WST. Bought some that and read it's outstanding in 45 but not listing much praise for 9mm or 38 super.

 

[cundiff5535]

Tell me about your load with WST. Bought some that and read it's outstanding in 45 but not listing much praise for 9mm or 38 super.

Yeah... for me, that is strictly a 45acp powder. I like to drop 4.5-5.0 grains on a 200 gr lswc. Works very nicely!

 

[Sirshredalot]

You want it all AND you want it for free?

That's said...clays

God bless
- Shred

 

[Fullmag]

My one in all is Power Pistol, if you find it. Almost don't want to tell anyone about it but is really good multi caliber powder.

 

[Fullmag]

Yeah... for me, that is strictly a 45acp powder. I like to drop 4.5-5.0 grains on a 200 gr lswc. Works very nicely!

What OAL are you running? Have some lswc 200 gr from Missouri Bullet Company but not much success. Do like their flat point round nose 200 gr bullets quite a bit.

 

[ryknoll3]

The only real way to find out is via trial and error, experimenting with each powder at various charge levels.
With that said, best accuracy is usually achieved in a given cartridge with powder charges that most nearly fill all the airspace in the case for your intended muzzle velocity without requiring compression.
That is the main reason why Hodgdon created Titegroup powder.
Obviously, there are scores of other variables involved with reloading that can also affect accuracy, such as seating depth, crimp, neck expansion, etc., but filling up the case with just about any cartridge tends to have a vary high chance of success.

You're kidding, right?

You can easily double charge a load of Titegroup in 9mm without filling the case.

 

[cundiff5535]

What OAL are you running? Have some lswc 200 gr from Missouri Bullet Company but not much success. Do like their flat point round nose 200 gr bullets quite a bit.

PM sent...

 

[oldpink]

You're kidding, right?

You can easily double charge a load of Titegroup in 9mm without filling the case.

Oops!
Right you are.
I had intended to write that as Trail Boss.
Sorry about that, OP, and thanks for catching that one, ryknoll3.

 

[JStang314]

I use titegroup for all of my pistol calibers. Probably not the absolute best for any, but works well for all. 9mm, .40, and 45ACP.

 

[foxmustang]

WST is my go-to for 9, 40, and 45. Accuracy wise out of the 40 and 45 is top notch, 9mm I haven't had a chance to prove it yet accuracy wise but it seems on par with the others. All of the above rounds are loaded with S'N'S cast bullets at nominal velocities for firearm function.

 

[Fullmag]

Loaded some WST today in 45acp. Strange and almost grey sandy looking powder. Going take them out to the range tomorrow for testing.

 

[noylj]

45acp,38super, and 9mm
I want want the most accurate, best shooting, cleanest power out there! I have typically used Winchester 231, Bullseye, Titegroup, Universal, Unique, and CFE Pistol. I have a bunch of 231, Unique, and CFE left, but recently shot some Winchester Super Target and was pretty amazed by it in my 45.
.45 ACP: accuracy--231/HP38, Bullseye, Red Dot. Best shooting--define? I would say 185-200gn bullet and those three powders. Cleanest--don't understand the term. All powders get the gun dirty. All powders, except on get the case dirty. I used one gun for seasons of IPSC and PPC and never cleaned the gun. Used 5.0gn Unique for PPC (and a few Bullseye matches) and 6.0gn for IPSC. Gun never needed cleaning and never gave a hiccup.
Cleanest powder I ever found was PB (cases came out as clean as virgin brass); however, none of the "clean freaks" seemed to have ever found and it is now dead. Other than that, clean has no bearing on function or accuracy, unless you soak your guns in oil and make a lot of mud—so who cares?
.38 Super: Accuracy--Silhouette, True Blue, AA7. Again, can't define the other desires.
9x19: Accuracy--Power Pistol, BE86, Silhouette.
Now, if you want to shoot action pistol, where accuracy isn't a big deal, I would still NOT recommend TiteGroup or Clays. Both have produced pressure spikes in .45 and 9mm and TG and lead bullets aren't the best combo. Both are accurate over a very narrow range (almost +/- 0.05gn) and the loading range is very narrow. I would go with the fastest powder that is NOT N310 (same problem as TG and Clays). Am. Select could be a good choice.

 

[m_deaner]

For accuracy in 9mm I prefer Power Pistol or WSF. I get the best accuracy loading towards the max loads in 9mm... So with these two powders, WSF is better for typical loads, and power pistol for hotter loads.

I really like Clays in 45ACP, but 231 is very nice too and is a bit more accurate. There is more recoil with 231 though.

Speaking of of powder choice and recoil - this page goes into some detail for 38 super:
Recoil