Police reform study calls for change within IMPD

[Frank_N_Stein]

Ask NASCAR about their decisions.
Why do you ask me about stuff NASCAR has a press release on?
That's how 'Fake News' and 'Alternative History' gets going...

The only press releases I saw about "issues" concerned tires. The rest of the post you made makes it seem you insinuate there are problems with the police. If you can't provide specific examples to back up your claims, just say so. You don't have to play games and say asking for an example perpetuates "fake news" and "alternative history."

 

[JeepHammer]

The only press releases I saw about "issues" concerned tires. The rest of the post you made makes it seem you insinuate there are problems with the police. If you can't provide specific examples to back up your claims, just say so. You don't have to play games and say asking for an example perpetuates "fake news" and "alternative history."

Now, what I wrote was NASCAR was seriously considering dropping the Brickyard race.
No secret, it's published in trade magazines.

*I*, NASCAR, didn't write anything *YOU* posted. Not one word IN WRITING about police that I saw.

*IF* you would take off the police filter,
You *Might* be able to consider declining spectatorship, rising insurance, rising costs all around, and the decline in popularity in NASCAR all around since the 80s/90s.

*I* don't think highly of Indy cops, didn't have very good experience.
*You* tried to dodge/duck my issues by saying Speedway isn't Indy.
(Insert eye roll here).

That doesn't cover the gassing, MACEing, beatings and dogs turned loose on us just south east of downtown, which was Indy police.

Now, if *YOU* wouldn't do those things, good on you.
To deny it happened, more than to just the Hot Rodders, is denial on your part,
And more 'Alternative History' promotion since that's EXACTLY what happened,
And if it came to trial in an actual court, I could produce a whiteness list in the hundreds...

*IF* you don't do those things now,
Then simply say that,
"WE DON'T DO CRAP LIKE THAT NOW" would be all it took...

Denials and calling me a liar is just reinforcing my belief nothing has changed.
That means I will continue to turn away anyone & everyone I have contact with and your community continues to NOT have the money/events we have power over.

See the connection now it's not filtered through the police department lens?
I sure hope so...
I'd have to think there is yet another police officer that can't connect the factors.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Now, what I wrote was NASCAR was seriously considering dropping the Brickyard race.
No secret, it's published in trade magazines.

*I*, NASCAR, didn't write anything *YOU* posted. Not one word IN WRITING about police that I saw.

*IF* you would take off the police filter,
You *Might* be able to consider declining spectatorship, rising insurance, rising costs all around, and the decline in popularity in NASCAR all around since the 80s/90s.

*I* don't think highly of Indy cops, didn't have very good experience.
*You* tried to dodge/duck my issues by saying Speedway isn't Indy.
(Insert eye roll here).

That doesn't cover the gassing, MACEing, beatings and dogs turned loose on us just south east of downtown, which was Indy police.

Now, if *YOU* wouldn't do those things, good on you.
To deny it happened, more than to just the Hot Rodders, is denial on your part,
And more 'Alternative History' promotion since that's EXACTLY what happened,
And if it came to trial in an actual court, I could produce a whiteness list in the hundreds...

*IF* you don't do those things now,
Then simply say that,
"WE DON'T DO CRAP LIKE THAT NOW" would be all it took...

Denials and calling me a liar is just reinforcing my belief nothing has changed.
That means I will continue to turn away anyone & everyone I have contact with and your community continues to NOT have the money/events we have power over.

See the connection now it's not filtered through the police department lens?
I sure hope so...
I'd have to think there is yet another police officer that can't connect the factors.

Speedway isn't Indianapolis. It is its own city with its own PD. I have never heard of the 1986 incident that you refer to. I was living in southern California in 1986 and have never heard of it since 2002, when I moved to Indianapolis. And if asking someone for specific examples of claims they make = calling you a liar, that is a far stretch. But hey, believe what you want to about me, doesn't bother me one bit.

 

[JeepHammer]

Speedway isn't Indianapolis. It is its own city with its own PD. I have never heard of the 1986 incident that you refer to. I was living in southern California in 1986 and have never heard of it since 2002, when I moved to Indianapolis. And if asking someone for specific examples of claims they make = calling you a liar, that is a far stretch. But hey, believe what you want to about me, doesn't bother me one bit.

It's Indianapolis to the people that visit there, spend their money in Indianapolis, ect.

You did miss the point entirely...

1. Since *You* didn't know about the history of Indianapolis police, you deny anything happened,
Even when an eye whiteness that was there tells you about it.

2. More tourist dollars, more actual honest jobs, and hopefully less crime.
I guess that would be "Bad For Business" if you are a police officer?

I see it as making your job easier, provided crime reduces with more tourist dollars.

3. The three of us were robbed at gunpoint, in handcuffs, by police in Indianapolis.
You can split hairs about IMPD & Speedway all you want, still Indianapolis police to us.

4. We now run the events that could *Potentially* bring millions into Indianapolis, and yet we still see police denying there was, or is, anything wrong...
When we see no changes, there will be no changes in the current situation.

I'm sure as long as your taxpayer funded paycheck doesn't bounce, you don't care.
You made the statement in writing you don't care, so I'm sure you don't care...

Our elective events won't collapse the city economy, so what we do won't effect your paycheck, no incentive to change anything...
Staying in the 1980s is fine with you, you just said you don't care...

Meanwhile, the rest of us will move on in the 21st century and you can keep your 1980s ways...

Riots burning things down, terrorists in the capitol buildings, etc,
And you all can continue to harass tourists for blue dots in tail lights, bumper height, dot approved tires, so you spray MACE, throw tear gas (military grade CS), throw the dogs at us...

... And commit armed robbery on anyone in a classic hot rod saying they are 'Suspicous' and *could* be "Drug Related Vehicle", even though it's out of county/state plate and in town with 5,000 other hot rods...
Your mayor & governor welcoming us on every TV channel...
But we are 'Drug Suspects" until our wallets are empty,
And then gassed, MACEed, beaten, attack dog chewed up...

And it happened again later in the year with the organizers of the black expo executives in town to organize with city officials...

You are entitled to your opinion, doesn't change history of our opinions.
The Indy car race, the Brickyard (for now), and that's about it.

You have a Sam Jones expressway,
THAT Sam Jones (Jones & Moody) is from the nearest town to me, I used to work for him in highschool.
He was chewed up by Indy police dogs.
Would you take the word of a guy that has a city express way named after him?

He also wouldn't go to to the big deal city commerative festival a few years back without the mayor guaranteeing his safety, and the MAYOR couldn't, so he didn't go.

Now, consider that single 1986 event alienated 7 members of the Hot Rod Hall Of Fame that make decisions now...

And I'm convinced you still don't care since it's not relevant filtered through the police union...
It's your loss.

I wonder what the opinion of shop keepers, hotel owners, restaurant owners, tourists attractions think about loosing every motorsports event that isn't a Speedway event?

Clermont (speedway) events having to warn their participants NOT to cross over into Indy Metro, or to do so only in daylight & at their own risk...

And I'm sure you still aren't connecting the dots because it didn't come through a 'Police' filter...

 

[DoggyDaddy]

WTF does declining NASCAR attendance have to do with IMPD? That's some seriously non-sequitur right there.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

It's Indianapolis to the people that visit there, spend their money in Indianapolis, ect.

You did miss the point entirely...

1. Since *You* didn't know about the history of Indianapolis police, you deny anything happened,
Even when an eye whiteness that was there tells you about it.

2. More tourist dollars, more actual honest jobs, and hopefully less crime.
I guess that would be "Bad For Business" if you are a police officer?

I see it as making your job easier, provided crime reduces with more tourist dollars.

3. The three of us were robbed at gunpoint, in handcuffs, by police in Indianapolis.
You can split hairs about IMPD & Speedway all you want, still Indianapolis police to us.

4. We now run the events that could *Potentially* bring millions into Indianapolis, and yet we still see police denying there was, or is, anything wrong...
When we see no changes, there will be no changes in the current situation.

I'm sure as long as your taxpayer funded paycheck doesn't bounce, you don't care.
Our elective events won't collapse the city economy, so what we do won't effect your paycheck, no incentive to change anything...
Staying in the 1980s is fine with you, you just said you don't care...

Meanwhile, the rest of us will move on in the 21st century and you can keep your 1980s ways...

Riots burning things down, terrorists in the capitol buildings, etc,
And you all can continue to harass tourists for blue dots in tail lights, bumper height, dot approved tires,
And commit armed robbery on anyone in a classic hot rod saying they are 'Suspicous' and *could* be "Drug Related Vehicle", even though it's out of county/state plate and in town with 5,000 other hot rods...
Your mayor & governor welcoming us on every TV channel...
But we are 'Drug Suspects" until our wallets are empty,
And then gassed, MACEed, beaten, attack dog chewed up...

And it happened again later in the year with the organizers of the black expo executives in town to organize with city officials...

You are entitled to your opinion, doesn't change history of our opinions.
The Indy car race, the Brickyard (for now), and that's about it.

You have a Sam Jones expressway,
THAT Sam Jones (Jones & Moody) is from the nearest town to me, I used to work for him in highschool.
He was chewed up by Indy police dogs.

He also wouldn't go to to the big deal city festival a few years back without the mayor guaranteeing his safety...

Now, consider that single 1986 event alienated 7 members of the Hot Rod Hall Of Fame that make decisions now...

And I'm convinced you still don't care since it's not relevant filtered through the police union...
It's your loss.

Nothing I say to you will change your mind about anything, so there is no point. You have made your opinion of me, and I of you. So, no point in having a discussion any further. Best wishes.

 

[JeepHammer]

Also keep in mind NO ONE called *YOU* out about this,
You keep volunteering to make false statements, denials, poke the bear...

*YOU* want to engage in futile argument...
Simply because of *YOUR* law enforcement filter.

I give police officers the benefit of a doubt,
*YOU* volunteered your opinions that make me think nothing has changed, still denials, deflections, false counter accusations...

 

[JeepHammer]

WTF does declining NASCAR attendance have to do with IMPD? That's some seriously non-sequitur right there.

I pointed that out also.
It's the filter Frank-N-Stine (or whatever) has.
Things just can't happen, everything has to be an attack on him/police.

What is pointed out was a crap load of motorsports events don't happen in Indy,
And some of what's left might go away, and WHY they aren't coming back soon, going away.
Its history he doesn't like, so he denys it.

Can't help the false victim mentality.

When it's self inflicted you aren't a victim.

And it IS a thread on police reform, this is an example of police being corrected, but claiming to be 'Victims' of things they did to themselves...

Don't know what reforms they supposedly need, don't live in Indy...

Just pointing out a representative of that police department VOLUNTEERED verbally attacks on an actual victim of that same police force.

It's the beat someone that wasn doing nothing to them,
Then saying the victim MADE the perpetrator of the crime made him do the beating,
The perpetrator says he's the victim...

That supports the point of reforms are needed, not then other way around...

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Also keep in mind NO ONE called *YOU* out about this,
You keep volunteering to make false statements, denials, poke the bear...

*YOU* want to engage in futile argument...
Simply because of *YOUR* law enforcement filter.

I give police officers the benefit of a doubt,
*YOU* volunteered your opinions that make me think nothing has changed, still denials, deflections, false counter accusations..

Rational discussion with you is over. Keep believing what you want to believe. But I'm sure you'll respond again with some long-winded post just to prove you're right.

 

[PapaScout]

I like cops and I've been to Speedway, too. I wouldn't miss NASCAR. Did I cover everything?

 

[JeepHammer]

Rational discussion with you is over. Keep believing what you want to believe. But I'm sure you'll respond again with some long-winded post just to prove you're right.

Not up to me to prove anything, I'm neither on the reform board,
Or an Indy police officer,
Or Indy resident that has to rely on you/police for anything.

I said at the beginning I don't know how Indy police do things since I haven't had dealings with them in decades,
But I know EXACTLY how things used to be.

I'm not much on the false victim mentality,
Beat your wife, then deny the wife was beaten,
And when that doesn't fly, you say your wife MADE YOU beat her, claim to be the victim.

Now that others remember those events, you aren't saying it didn't happen anymore...
On from denials into excuses/counter accusations mode.

And, just to be clear, isn't this your second or third post about being out of the conversation?

Didn't you volunteer to attack my experience, and history?

Didn't you make excuses for IMPD/Speedway trying to split hairs?

Didn't you omit the MACE/gas/beatings/dog attacks since those didn't happen in Speedway?

Didn't you jump to connect police with NASCAR when I made no such statement or claim?

Haven't you stated that you were in California when said events in MY LIFE happened, and yet tried to spin my experiences to your/police viewpoint?

Pull your ego out of it and look at it objectively instead of subjectively.
I can give names of people that were there, got robbed, chewed up, beaten, gassed...
Including Indiana residents and Hot Rod Hall Of Fame Sam Jones & Bret Voelkel.
Users (I often don't get along with) confirmed crap happened.

Where are your eye whitenesses?

You are upset I didn't 'Respect' your authority as an officer, your ego is bruised...
Because of things that happened when you were a kid in California you have zero knowledge of.

Then you proceed to try and re-write MY history, insult me, ect.

I'm sure you don't see a problem with this, because you stated as much.

I'm sure you don't care why tourist dollars won't come to Indy, you don't depend on those dollars for you paycheck, and you said so.
That's also saying you don't care what happens to the residents in Indy...
They don't make those tourist dollars, can't send their kids to good schools, can't hire contractors to build houses, ect simply because you get yours somewhere else.

You refuse to connect the dots that high tide raises all boats because you don't rely on a boat for a living, nobody else matters to you.

Like it or not, the police have been a big issue in Indy,
And that perception (warranted in the past) still exists.
You didn't jump up and say that crap won't happen on your watch,
You simply attacked the victims.

That supports another round of reforms/oversight boards since it's NOT how things are supposed to work with police.
YOU are making the case for reforms/oversight boards...

 

[JeepHammer]

I like cops and I've been to Speedway, too. I wouldn't miss NASCAR. Did I cover everything?

I like SOME police,
I'm a law & order (as intended) supporter.

I will always comply with police, which is why bad cops robbed me, sprayed me with MACE, gassed me...

I'm also aware that in any job classification, there are the top 10% that do everything correctly,
The bottom 10% that are useless/harmful,
And the 80% in the middle that are simply doing the job, usually at part throttle and aren't perfect.

It's the 10% at the bottom that are so hard to get rid of...
And it's in all business/government.

As for motorsports, avid fan.
Made part of my living on it most of my life, nearly all my income for the last 25 years.

And as a disclaimer, I pointed no fingers at any particular officer, was stating facts with no slant/direction.
We all know 'Hacks' that cause problems, create more work/problems for others at work, counter productive to the job at hand.

 

[firecadet613]

If I'm reading this correctly, you're blaming Indianapolis for issues which occured in Speedway.

Then later you said Clermont(speedway).

You realize Indianapolis, Speedway and Clermont are all completely separate cities within the state of Indiana?

As a casual observer, you definitely have a beef with the PD. Might I suggest, as someone else already did, you relocate to Ohio?

 

[churchmouse]

So I am at lunch with some of the miscreants from the CZickness thread. I get a series of texts about this thread.


"SIGH"

 

[Denny347]

Hmmm. Saw that the Hot Rod Super Nationals started in Ohio. Then in Indianapolis for 3 years then back to Ohio in 1987. I couldn't find anything that mentioned the reason to go from Ohio to Indy and Back to Ohio. Was IPD (not IMPD), Speedway Police, and Clermont Police heavy handed in the mid 80's? Most likely. Such as nearly ALL large city PD's were back then. Policing in those days at the height of the "Crack war" and pre Graham V Connor SCOTUS ruling, were heavy handed. You talked back to an officer you got hit in the face. "Choir practice" was common. Drinking on duty was normal. Graft, corruption, back alley justice, all "old school" police behavior. For the most part, the public didn't care. Maybe Indy did loose the Hot Rod Nationals because of something IPD or SPD did? Maybe not. But Indy is so busy with large conventions, events, that they are about to start a HUGE convention center expansion (pre-Covid). I find it hard to imagine that even with the promoters changing, name changing, several location changes, and movement in Hot Rod magazine, that the Hot Rod Nationals even remembers anything about 1986. If the events happened as alleged, I'm truly sorry. However, I see no proof that the events of 1986 are causing anything negative to Indy now. I think there might be 3 people on a department of 1700 that were on in 1986 and still working today. You are indeed holding a grudge. You might consider moving on. The rest of the world has.

 

[jsharmon7]

 

[MadMan66]

I wonder if people even realize that probably 90% of officers on the streets of Indy at any given time weren't even born in '86. The mentality that has been displayed in this thread by someone, is the kind of mentality that no amount of police "reform" will fix. If we can't look past poor practices of the past, and recognize the changes that have taken place in the last 3 decades, then there is no sense in a discussion.

 

[jsx1043]

LMFAO!!!

 

[Jeepster48439]

I wonder if people even realize that probably 90% of officers on the streets of Indy at any given time weren't even born in '86. The mentality that has been displayed in this thread by someone, is the kind of mentality that no amount of police "reform" will fix. If we can't look past poor practices of the past, and recognize the changes that have taken place in the last 3 decades, then there is no sense in a discussion.

Or that a good number of Hoosiers were not even living here in 1986, so have no reference of how bad things were. Personally, my 'Hoosier' experience started in 1997 as a contracted consultant to the IHA. I got to visit, on a regular basis, all the best parts of the city. I moved to the City in 2011.

 

[JTScribe]

I wonder if people even realize that probably 90% of officers on the streets of Indy at any given time weren't even born in '86. The mentality that has been displayed in this thread by someone, is the kind of mentality that no amount of police "reform" will fix. If we can't look past poor practices of the past, and recognize the changes that have taken place in the last 3 decades, then there is no sense in a discussion.

Picture him like this, it helps.