Police Chief Mark Kessler discusses "shameful" police academy training, RKBA

[rambone]

Police Chief Mark Kessler, of Gilberton Borough, Pennsylvania, spoke briefly about current police academy training portrays citizens in general as criminals and threats to local law enforcement. I was impressed with his honesty and uncompromising support of the right to bear arms.

"When I go through the police academy, they treat everyone that you come in contact with is a criminal. Everyone with a firearm is out to kill you. That's what they teach us at the academy. That's what we're taught. And I have a hard time swallowing that. I have a real hard time swallowing that."

"That's why you have all these young police officers that graduate from these academies and they come out and they want to kick butt and take names, and ruin lives, over nonsense. They terrorize people over a turn signal, or having a brake light out. They want to search your car right away, they want to demonize the American people, the average citizen, the law-abiding citizen."

"I have better things to do with my time than worry about somebody who has a broken tail light," Kessler said. "That's nit-picking nonsense."

"We need to educate our police officers a lot better. A lot better," Kessler said. "What comes out of these academies is shameful, its really shameful."

Chief Kessler is perhaps best known for his advocacy of the 2nd Amendment Preservation Act, and promoting the Oathkeepers organization.


Police Chief Mark Kessler: "Shameful" how academy trains officers to treat everyone like a criminal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6a23wxaA-Q


In another interview he gave his opinions of the "disturbing, disgusting" behavior of the "thugs" who participated in the NOLA gun confiscation. I can't help but like this guy.

On disarming citizens: "I Will Take My Uniform Off and Stand with Freedom Before I Stand with Tyrannical Thugs"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezoK-o8wg5E

 

[VUPDblue]

If that is, in fact, how PA runs their academy then I wholeheartedly agree with the good chief. This is also why I feel we don't have as many of the horrible kind of stories of JBT's right here in the Hoosier state...because our academies don't teach nonsense like that.

 

[Kutnupe14]

If that is, in fact, how PA runs their academy then I wholeheartedly agree with the good chief. This is also why I feel we don't have as many of the horrible kind of stories of JBT's right here in the Hoosier state...because our academies don't teach nonsense like that.

+2... ILEA is squared away. I can't think of time I was taught anything remotely similar to what they are saying is going on in PA.

VU hits at the heart of the matter. For all the anti-LE threads/posts/comments, we see on I can't honestly recall something Hoosier-based, that paints LE, in general, in Indiana as being a culture of crooks. It would be nice if that was recognized every once in a while that while we may give you a summons for shooting in the gound to scare a dog. We're not going to shoot because you didn't answer the door during a welfare check.

Just sayin'

 

[j706]

Pa. Must have a problem at thier academy. As others have said that jazz isn't taught here. Not even close. Besides all that the last person anyone should be listening too on anything law enforcement is a chief.

 

[Bapak2ja]

I agree with the trend here. If that is an accurate description of training in Pennsylvania, it needs to change. Great to hear our Hoosier LEOs affirm such teaching does not exist here.

If it does not emerge in Indiana in the training program, where does it come from? I have had two experiences with local LEOs that confirm at least some of "Indiana's finest" are the arrogant, tyrannical thugs cited by Kessler. On the other hand, I have also had a couple of experiences with officers who did it right. In all these occasions I was in violation of existing traffic laws and deserved to be stopped. Some officers were professionals, but two were name-calling, cursing, abusive, arrogant thugs.

We get all kinds in Indiana, too. Tip of the hat to those who do their job while demonstrating that Joe Q. Public really is a human being, not a dog on which they can wipe their feet.

 

[j706]

I agree with the trend here. If that is an accurate description of training in Pennsylvania, it needs to change. Great to hear our Hoosier LEOs affirm such teaching does not exist here.

If it does not emerge in Indiana in the training program, where does it come from? I have had two experiences with local LEOs that confirm at least some of "Indiana's finest" are the arrogant, tyrannical thugs cited by Kessler. On the other hand, I have also had a couple of experiences with officers who did it right. In all these occasions I was in violation of existing traffic laws and deserved to be stopped. Some officers were professionals, but two were name-calling, cursing, abusive, arrogant thugs.

We get all kinds in Indiana, too. Tip of the hat to those who do their job while demonstrating that Joe Q. Public really is a human being, not a dog on which they can wipe their feet.

You actually had a on duty officer during the performance of thier duty call you names and use profanity towards you?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You actually had a on duty officer during the performance of thier duty call you names and use profanity towards you?

Sure and I wrote it up on INGO.

I don't think it is typical or even accepted behavior though.

Just a bad day and stressful times for him.

If this is correct, then Pennsylvania needs to makes some changes and soon. I have family out there and they carry (without any incident).

 

[Indy317]

If that is, in fact, how PA runs their academy then I wholeheartedly agree with the good chief. This is also why I feel we don't have as many of the horrible kind of stories of JBT's right here in the Hoosier state...because our academies don't teach nonsense like that.

I do think his points about over analyzing "the small stuff" should be looked at. Even in Indiana there is a lot of teaching to "look beyond the traffic stop." After safety, I take the mindset of focusing on the issue at hand. Teaching the whole "beyond the traffic stop" mentality will absolutely lead to officers profiling everyone they stop, because it basically tells officers to view every traffic stop as a drug/illegal gun transport investigation. Some officers like to ask "Where you going, where are you coming from" type questions on all stops. I can see asking those if they are relevant to the issue at hand, but asking because someone's muffler just fell off seems odd, and almost overreaching to me. I sometimes get looks of bewilderment when I tell other officers I could careless about "going beyond the traffic stop."

I also have some conflicting issues about the whole "the most important thing is going home at the end of shift" mentality. I understand it can encourage a much more alert and tactical sense of awareness, but I know that it can cause some officers to view everyone they come in contact with as a deadly threat. There has to be a medium on how to read people, and essentially roll the dice when it comes to how you deal with different individuals. If one is that worried about going home at the end of their shift, I would suggest they find another line of work. When I hear officers say "Going home at the end of my shift is the only thing that matters" or "Well, I'm going to make sure I go home at the end of my shift." I wonder what their reaction will be to things with a higher threat level? Will they just not show up to an active shooter situation? Wait till fifteen other cops arrive, then come out of their hiding place and respond?

 

[VUPDblue]

I do think his points about over analyzing "the small stuff" should be looked at. Even in Indiana there is a lot of teaching to "look beyond the traffic stop." After safety, I take the mindset of focusing on the issue at hand. Teaching the whole "beyond the traffic stop" mentality will absolutely lead to officers profiling everyone they stop, because it basically tells officers to view every traffic stop as a drug/illegal gun transport investigation. Some officers like to ask "Where you going, where are you coming from" type questions on all stops. I can see asking those if they are relevant to the issue at hand, but asking because someone's muffler just fell off seems odd, and almost overreaching to me. I sometimes get looks of bewilderment when I tell other officers I could careless about "going beyond the traffic stop."

I come from a different school of thought than you do apparently. My only general purpose and/or interest is "beyond the traffic stop". I don't go out and stop cars for the sake of writing traffic tickets. I stop cars in order to find warrants/guns/drugs etc... That's not to say that I won't write a ticket if one is warranted, but I give a metric crap ton of verbal warnings. I also ask the "where you headed to/coming from" question because it is one way I decide if someone may be getting a citation or summons, especially suspended/unlicensed drivers. If they are suspended and answer that they are going to/from work then I'm unlikely to take any enforcement action. Now if they are going to/from a bar/party/what have you, then they are probably getting some sort of paperwork from me. I am not looking to jam-up Joe Citizen for petty BS but questions are just questions and the ones I ask tend to depend on the situation. I'm not a robot.

I also have some conflicting issues about the whole "the most important thing is going home at the end of shift" mentality. I understand it can encourage a much more alert and tactical sense of awareness, but I know that it can cause some officers to view everyone they come in contact with as a deadly threat. There has to be a medium on how to read people, and essentially roll the dice when it comes to how you deal with different individuals. If one is that worried about going home at the end of their shift, I would suggest they find another line of work. When I hear officers say "Going home at the end of my shift is the only thing that matters" or "Well, I'm going to make sure I go home at the end of my shift." I wonder what their reaction will be to things with a higher threat level? Will they just not show up to an active shooter situation? Wait till fifteen other cops arrive, then come out of their hiding place and respond?

I agree with what you wrote above.

 

[Bapak2ja]

You actually had a on duty officer during the performance of thier duty call you names and use profanity towards you?

Yep. He was in an unmarked car. I came up in the right-hand turn lane, timed the light just right, zipped by him to go straight up the street—all in a shiny red Mustang. The minute he realized I was past him he hit the lights. I hit the emergency lights and pulled in to parking lot to take care of business.

The guy pulled up about three meters away and had cursed my ancestors before he exited the car. He went off on me for about three minutes. I timed it. My watch was in clear view as I sat there with my hands on the wheel and the door open so he could see there was no threat.

He finally asked what was the emergency that made me think I could drive like that. I explained—really had a good reason, not just kicking up my heels. The guy went off again with another great string of profanity. Then he told me to cool it with my driving and go take care of my son. He cursed me again for cutting him off, got in his car and drove away. No ticket. No written warning.

Most severe cursing I have had since I shut down an assembly line. (I screwed up installing the mold to make aluminum fans for the electric motors being assembled on the line. When the line ran out of fans the foreman sent the crew home. Some of those boys could out cuss a sailor, but this LEO was right up there with the best of them!) Not a professional, but one of "those" guys. Still, he made his point without costing me a couple hundred bucks. Not my favorite LEO, but he got the job done.

Not someone I would want have cup of coffee with, though.

 

[Trigger Time]

I come from a different school of thought than you do apparently. My only general purpose and/or interest is "beyond the traffic stop". I don't go out and stop cars for the sake of writing traffic tickets. I stop cars in order to find warrants/guns/drugs etc... That's not to say that I won't write a ticket if one is warranted, but I give a metric crap ton of verbal warnings. I also ask the "where you headed to/coming from" question because it is one way I decide if someone may be getting a citation or summons, especially suspended/unlicensed drivers. If they are suspended and answer that they are going to/from work then I'm unlikely to take any enforcement action. Now if they are going to/from a bar/party/what have you, then they are probably getting some sort of paperwork from me. I am not looking to jam-up Joe Citizen for petty BS but questions are just questions and the ones I ask tend to depend on the situation. I'm not a robot.



I agree with what you wrote above.

Sounds very reasonable to me (including what you agreed with). Thumbs up !

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

 

[Trigger Time]

It's reassuring to hear this way of thinking is not taught in Indiana (at least when the above officers were trained) like other things we must remain ever vigilant!

I like VU's explanation of why he asks the where have you been question in certain cases. That's good community police work in my opinion as a citizen. Not trying to jam up and possibly cause a lifelong record for someone who might have made a mistake but at least is still working a job.

 

[Destro]

Yep. He was in an unmarked car. I came up in the right-hand turn lane, timed the light just right, zipped by him to go straight up the street—all in a shiny red Mustang. The minute he realized I was past him he hit the lights. I hit the emergency lights and pulled in to parking lot to take care of business.

The guy pulled up about three meters away and had cursed my ancestors before he exited the car. He went off on me for about three minutes. I timed it. My watch was in clear view as I sat there with my hands on the wheel and the door open so he could see there was no threat.

He finally asked what was the emergency that made me think I could drive like that. I explained—really had a good reason, not just kicking up my heels. The guy went off again with another great string of profanity. Then he told me to cool it with my driving and go take care of my son. He cursed me again for cutting him off, got in his car and drove away. No ticket. No written warning.

Most severe cursing I have had since I shut down an assembly line. (I screwed up installing the mold to make aluminum fans for the electric motors being assembled on the line. When the line ran out of fans the foreman sent the crew home. Some of those boys could out cuss a sailor, but this LEO was right up there with the best of them!) Not a professional, but one of "those" guys. Still, he made his point without costing me a couple hundred bucks. Not my favorite LEO, but he got the job done.

Not someone I would want have cup of coffee with, though.

was he wearing a uniform?

 

[Magneto]

It's good to know that kind of teaching doesn't go on here in Indiana. However, we must be vigilant that it never does.

 

[indykid]

Follows well with this thread from the "great" state of Florida.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...08-video_police_order_woman_to_shake_bra.html

Glad to hear that at least in Indiana things are taught differently.

 

[Bapak2ja]

was he wearing a uniform?

Yep. One of the Fort's finest.

 

[rambone]

These are a couple of the stories that came to mind when he described the "Everyone with a firearm is out to kill you" attitude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-vUYeJXSrA

LiveLeak.com - FL Deputy Threatens to Shoot Concealed Carry Licensee and Arrests Him for Lawfully carried Handgun

 

[Destro]

These are a couple of the stories that came to mind when he described the "Everyone with a firearm is out to kill you" attitude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-vUYeJXSrA

LiveLeak.com - FL Deputy Threatens to Shoot Concealed Carry Licensee and Arrests Him for Lawfully carried Handgun

no excuse

 

[CathyInBlue]

It's good to know that kind of teaching doesn't go on here in Indiana. However, we must be vigilant that it never does.

And yet, some of them are learning the lesson to disrespect and persecute lawful firearm carriers as common criminals anyway. If not at the academy, where is the most common place anyone learns how to conduct themselves on the job is… on the job… from coworkers.