Pocket Pistol as primary carry.

[SubicWarrior1988]

The P3AT is my summer wardrobe primary, however, conflict avoidance is my #1 defensive weapon, always.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Keep in mind that "pocket carry" is:

1. It is slow in deployment.

2. It can be dangerous to the carrier and others around him.

3. It can be very difficult to access in certain positions (e.g., sitting).

It is less than optimal. Maybe for a backup gun, but even then I'm not a fan.

However, it does beat nothing.

 

[JAH]

Actually I find myself carrying my PF9 mostly. I like the fact that it fits in a pocket and is a 9MM. I can not afford a 45 small enough to fit in my pocket.

 

[AccuRat]

I agree that having a firearm is better than not. However, I think that, even with practice, pulling a firearm out of your pocket will never be as fast as pulling a holstered weapon when the SHTF and time is of the essence.
This, of course, may be situation dictated as when I worked as a security guard a few years ago and "wasn't allowed" to carry a handgun. I did carry a small .380 in my pocket at that time. Sometime it is better to ask for forgiveness than to ask permission.

That's a good point, and one I'm consciously considering and aware of every time I close the flap on the cargo pocket of my shorts containing my P32. Nope, not going to win any IPSC matches there. I'm not good enough, nor do I practice enough, to outdraw a bad guy who has the jump on me, aka, Timothy Olyphant-style in the FX series "Justified."

Think of the scene in the movie "Collateral" in which Tom Cruise confronts two men, one with a gun pointed squarely in his face. He moves to knock the gunman's gun hand away, while simultaneously drawing his strong side Sig from under his suit jacket and killing them both in less than 3 seconds. Impressive to say the least, but grossly unrealistic for what 99.9%+ of the population will ever have to face unless we go looking to pick a fight, not to mention the years of dedicated practice required in order to 1., have the skill set necessary to address a situation in such a manner, and, 2., the confidence in one's ability to actually employ their sidearm in such fashion. The reality is that most of don't and never will.

I've been shooting for 35 years with everything from a Buckmark Challenger to the Ma-Deuce and everything in between and I usually hit what I aim at. I like to think my marksmanship skills would help me survive a gunfight, but I'm pretty sure my gray matter would allow me to avoid such a confrontation if I have any control of the situation. As for the aforementioned "Tom Cruise" example, I know my tail would be going the other way in a hurry w/o even thinking of a confrontation unless my loved ones were in grave danger. Then, well, all bets are off at that point.

 

[bjosephback]

I know its not ideal, but my primary is a North American Arms .32 ACP. It just fits so nice when I'm wearing shorts and t-shirt, running the monon, etc. I've put quite a few rounds through it and its reliable.

 

[Sgt Rock]

A .380 LCP is a great back-up gun. Baretta in 9mm is usually primary, depending on dress.

 

[loony1]

Just curious to how many people on here carry a pocket pistol as their primary carry? I purchased a Ruger LCP last month and I find myself sticking it in my pocket and heading out the door more times then not.

here you go op, this is when i have no other options. Google pocket holsters and you will be GTG
Kel-Tec p32 w/crimson trace

 

[loony1]

That's a good point, and one I'm consciously considering and aware of every time I close the flap on the cargo pocket of my shorts containing my P32. Nope, not going to win any IPSC matches there. I'm not good enough, nor do I practice enough, to outdraw a bad guy who has the jump on me, aka, Timothy Olyphant-style in the FX series "Justified."

Think of the scene in the movie "Collateral" in which Tom Cruise confronts two men, one with a gun pointed squarely in his face. He moves to knock the gunman's gun hand away, while simultaneously drawing his strong side Sig from under his suit jacket and killing them both in less than 3 seconds. Impressive to say the least, but grossly unrealistic for what 99.9%+ of the population will ever have to face unless we go looking to pick a fight, not to mention the years of dedicated practice required in order to 1., have the skill set necessary to address a situation in such a manner, and, 2., the confidence in one's ability to actually employ their sidearm in such fashion. The reality is that most of don't and never will.

I've been shooting for 35 years with everything from a Buckmark Challenger to the Ma-Deuce and everything in between and I usually hit what I aim at. I like to think my marksmanship skills would help me survive a gunfight, but I'm pretty sure my gray matter would allow me to avoid such a confrontation if I have any control of the situation. As for the aforementioned "Tom Cruise" example, I know my tail would be going the other way in a hurry w/o even thinking of a confrontation unless my loved ones were in grave danger. Then, well, all bets are off at that point.

i got so sick of cleaning lint out of my gun, i had to clean it once a month.

 

[crudolph00]

Maybe it's slower coming out of your pocket. Mine comes out just as fast as I see most folks draw at IDPA matches.

Well....you must practice a heck of a lot. I'd like to see a pocket draw as fast as a holstered draw.

 

[cosermann]

Interesting discussion. Here's partly why I don't use a pocket gun as a primary carry piece.

Required rounds: The last statistics I looked at (and I'm too lazy to look up the source right now, they were recent gov't stats) indicated that you're likely to need 8 shots in an armed encounter with a single individual. Furthermore trends also show that the liklihood of facing more than one attacker in such incidents is on the rise. Given this, many pocket guns just don't have enough payload (by themselves) to address what will most likely be the need should a defensive situation that requires deadly force arise.

Hit rate: It's also important to note that the stats for hit rate previously quoted are for duty-size handguns. The hit rate for most folks with most pocket guns is likely to be lower due the significant ergonomic and mechanical compromises that have to be made to get a gun that small. Therefore, the hit rate with pocket guns is, all else equal - even lower. Another strike for the pocket guns.

Power: The power of most pocket gun loads is on the lower side of handgun capability, thus raising the liklihood of needing more shots, shots a pocketgun does not have, to get the job done.

So, the pocket guns don't carry enough rounds even if you're hit rate is 100%, the rounds they do carry are less efficient because they are more difficult to hit with, and they are less powerful. It's quite probable that if a pocket gun has to be used, only 1 shot will be landed for a 14% hit rate (I'm being generous. Maybe you'll land 0). Then, no shots are left if your attacker happens to have a friend (do you inconvience yourself with a reload, or is that too much to ask?). Marginal payload - low hit rate - low end power = potentially not enough gun for a primary piece.

It has been said that a handgun has to fit my lifestyle. Heaven forbid you'd have to change anything about the way you life, your style of dress, or your comfort level. Remamber the automatic seatbelts on cars years ago? You got in and shoulder belt sort of slid over the door and into position around you. Yes, some people won't even go to the effort to click a seatbelt.

It has been said that a mousegun is 'better than nothing.' That's true if that is all one is capable of carrying due to the circumstances.

It's not true if one is capable of carrying more gun, but only carries a pocket gun because one doesn't have an accurate picture of the potential need and/or is lulled into a false sense of what a pocket gun can accomplish. In this second case, the pocket gun is worse than nothing because it prevents someone from carrying something that is likely to be more effective.

Given all this, you might think I'm against pocket guns. I'm not. I carried one all weekend. However, on Saturday it was my tertiary gun and on Sunday it was my secondary gun.

Can a pocket gun get the job done? Maybe. It did on July 25, 1993 when Charl van Wyck, drove off 4 terrorists (wounding only 1) from the Azanian People's Liberation Army who were attacking his church with nothing more than a 38 snubnose revolver (and a lot of grit). Amazing. Is this something I'd want to count on? No.

Make your choices and take your chances.

YouTube - 2010 Shot Show: Massad Ayoob talks about carrying a second firearm

 

[thompal]

I agree that having a firearm is better than not. However, I think that, even with practice, pulling a firearm out of your pocket will never be as fast as pulling a holstered weapon when the SHTF and time is of the essence.

The draw itself may be slower, but on the other hand, it is possible that you will already have a grip on your pistol in your pocket, which speeds things immensely. That's the biggest (only?) advantage of pocket carry - it's possible to prepare by acquiring a proper grip on your handgun without telegraphing the fact that you are carrying.

 

[shibumiseeker]

The draw itself may be slower, but on the other hand, it is possible that you will already have a grip on your pistol in your pocket, which speeds things immensely. That's the biggest (only?) advantage of pocket carry - it's possible to prepare by acquiring a proper grip on your handgun without telegraphing the fact that you are carrying.

I have found this to be completely the case. Often if I am in a threatening environment I'll have the pocket gun already in hand and on target or ready to move to target, so in those situations I am much faster to deploy, and if it turns into a hand to hand situation I'm already in position.

In training I can draw my primary weapon, aim, and double tap with reliable center of mass hits at 50' in a hair under three seconds (I am NOT drawing a parallel to me standing ready to go on the range with combat), but I can take the pocket gun in my hand and point shoot from low ready and get the double tap in less than one second.

Does this help me when the miscreants bust into the bank or store and start shooting? Nope, but then having watched videos of these thing, I am pretty sure that not even having a weapon leveled at the door would do me much good in those situations. But it does help me when we're walking out in public late at night on a deserted street and some mispent youths are approaching and we have no good escape route, but we also have not yet been openly threatened.

 

[TiminMishawaka]

2 1/4" barrel Ruger SP101 with 5 rounds of .357. Always with me. I have to be honest that I used to have a J frame with .38 special +p and decided to get just a smidge more whomp. Who knows though. I may pick up an airweight hammerless in the future.

 

[bjosephback]

Well....you must practice a heck of a lot. I'd like to see a pocket draw as fast as a holstered draw.

Unless you're wearing sume ball huggers, it should be pretty quick to draw from your pocket.

 

[truegrit]

I carry an LCP around the house daily. That means walking to the mailbox,working in the yard etc. If I go to the store or anywhere else. I put on something bigger.

 

[hoosierfishing]

I consider a pocket gun a "up close and personal" gun. Meaning its best used when up close. With that, I feel the hit rate from a pocket gun should be high. I believe my LCP will get me out of trouble, which is why I carry. If out of trouble means a few rounds stuns the guy or completely drops him, as long as I or my family gets to safety , thats all I care about. With that said, I am thinking about carrying my Glock 19 OWB again.

 

[Cam]

Unless you're wearing sume ball huggers, it should be pretty quick to draw from your pocket.

This.


I don't know why folks think the draw is soooo slow. I literally can reach into my back pocket and produce my LCP every bit as fast as I can throw my shirt tail up with one hand, and unholster any other gun I own. It's not some terribly difficult thing to do. (unless you have the ball huggers on, of course.)

 

[Cam]

Well....you must practice a heck of a lot. I'd like to see a pocket draw as fast as a holstered draw.

Yup. You don't practice with your weapon?

 

[Cemetery-man]

I literally can reach into my back pocket and produce my LCP every bit as fast as I can throw my shirt tail up with one hand, and unholster any other gun I own. It's not some terribly difficult thing to do.

+1

 

[emayer7285]

I know if I am wearing shorts or some clothes that are not baggy the pocket pistol is the way to go. I do prefer something with more kick than a .380 but sometimes its better to have something small and be good with it than big and untrained.